D&D 5E (2024) DnD 5e designer [Mike Mearls] explains how INDIE RPGs are taking over

[I'm A Banana]

We both agree that game abandoned "generalist" design to master a specific lane: a robust, tactical system where the rules actually do what they say on the tin. He uses that rock-solid framework to ground a high-stakes narrative, while I appreciates it for the systemic elegance of the tactical game itself.

FWIW, I think there is an argument to be made that being "generalist" (maybe not exactly in the sense you're using the word here, but in terms of "serving many different game systems") is actually a huge asset for D&D specifically, but maybe leads inevitably to the flourishing secondary market for other TTRPGs.

The idea goes that D&D today has to serve an incredibly diverse audience who all want slightly different things from the game, and so having a broader, less specifically tuned framework helps D&D be more popular because it can be bent in a lot of different directions and works "well enough" that a diverse player base isn't too bothered. A D&D that did these things "better" might steal focus from some of those other things and end up being more narrow in appeal. The argument goes that 4e is an example of this -- a game with a very specific style that wound up having a narrower appeal than the editions on either side of it.

But, the generality of 5e also means that there will inevitably be players who want more out of one specific kind of D&D experience, and find that the more generalist approach feels shallow. There are ALWAYS people unsatisfied with some element of D&D that other groups are just fine with. These players are likely to seek out games with a more specific, tuned focus on the kinds of games they want.

Examples include how OSR games often support "dungeon crawling" as a genre (and often do so with lighter rules than 5e). Or how Draw Steel is a game about fighting monsters, or how Daggerheart is a game about character and narrative. Meanwhile, a broad base of players feel like D&D 5e does a "good enough" job at those genres that they don't need a separate game that focuses more narrowly.

The analogy is that it's like network TV (broadly appealing) and cable (more niche and specialized). A lot of folks will do both, depending on their mood or what others are into or what they want to keep up with. You don't have to do just one or the other.

Heck, I could see a not-implausible future where someone subscribes to D&D for a "season" (a campaign) and gets all the rules and then cancels their subscription and subscribes to another game for a "season" and then returns to D&D or goes to a third game....the same way a lot of folks shift subscription services around today. And some folks will still buy their physical media (books), too, but they might be a little more specialized collector's items.

 

[GrimCo]

FWIW, I think there is an argument to be made that being "generalist" (maybe not exactly in the sense you're using the word here, but in terms of "serving many different game systems") is actually a huge asset for D&D specifically, but maybe leads inevitably to the flourishing secondary market for other TTRPGs.

D&D is generalist in a sense that it tries to support or at least not actively hinder wide variety of play styles and genres. 2ed did it with bunch of campaign settings that added it's own sub systems. 3.5 did it similarly, but with cleaner math and more unified system. 5e did it by returning to DM fiat and rulings over rules and abstractions. It's toolbox approach. 4e isn't a toolbox. It's specialized tool, one that does one job, but does it very good.

And yes, D&D being mediocre at many things, opens up space for other specialized ttrpgs that do one thing, but do it very good. It's great entry point. Start with d&d, find out what styles and genres you like, try to fiddle with system to better suit your needs, eventually stop trying to fiddle and go out and find specialized niche game that does your preferred style/genre better. FE, i could jiggle 5e for cinematic swashbuckling combat and it will work to a degree (with some heavy lifting on my part as a DM). Or i could just pick up 7th sea 1e and have it out of box, no assembly needed.

 

[Imaro]

D&D is generalist in a sense that it tries to support or at least not actively hinder wide variety of play styles and genres. 2ed did it with bunch of campaign settings that added it's own sub systems. 3.5 did it similarly, but with cleaner math and more unified system. 5e did it by returning to DM fiat and rulings over rules and abstractions. It's toolbox approach. 4e isn't a toolbox. It's specialized tool, one that does one job, but does it very good.

And yes, D&D being mediocre at many things, opens up space for other specialized ttrpgs that do one thing, but do it very good. It's great entry point. Start with d&d, find out what styles and genres you like, try to fiddle with system to better suit your needs, eventually stop trying to fiddle and go out and find specialized niche game that does your preferred style/genre better. FE, i could jiggle 5e for cinematic swashbuckling combat and it will work to a degree (with some heavy lifting on my part as a DM). Or i could just pick up 7th sea 1e and have it out of box, no assembly needed.

Of course this assumes you have or want a singularly focused style/genre as opposed to something less rigid.

 

[Mannahnin]

In the early 80s, once TTRPGs started to lose shelf space in mainstream retailers the hobby had no way to keep drawing in new players at scale. I vividly remember buying my D&D stuff at Child World in Salem, NH. One day my mom took me there and... the D&D stuff was just gone. That was it. At that age, in that area, I had no way to find D&D products.

Small world! What did you do after that/where did you find games?

I didn't get down to Salem, but in the '85-'87 range I was able to get D&D stuff at the Mall of New Hampshire in Manchester, at B. Dalton Booksellers and at KayBee toys. Other toy and hobby shops often had some stuff too. When we moved to Lansdale, PA in '87 I was able to get wide range of RPG and wargame stuff at a hobby shop I forget the name of, in the Montgomery Mall. Including my first miniatures, copies of the Steve Jackson cheap clamshell games like Car Wars and One Page Bulge, Battletech, TWERPS, Lost Worlds...

 

[mearls]

Small world! What did you do after that/where did you find games?

I didn't get down to Salem, but in the '85-'87 range I was able to get D&D stuff at the Mall of New Hampshire in Manchester, at B. Dalton Booksellers and at KayBee toys. Other toy and hobby shops often had some stuff too. When we moved to Lansdale, PA in '87 I was able to get wide range of RPG and wargame stuff at a hobby shop I forget the name of, in the Montgomery Mall. Including my first miniatures, copies of the Steve Jackson cheap clamshell games like Car Wars and One Page Bulge, Battletech, TWERPS, Lost Worlds...

We went to the Mall of New Hampshire once in a great while, but that's where I bought my Companion Set way back in the day. I mostly shopped at the Waldenbooks in the Methuen Mall and sometimes found marked down stuff at Child World or KayBee.

Around 1989 or so, my dad changed jobs that summer and had two weeks off. He was bored and wanted something to do, so I looked up a bunch of places in the yellow pages that seemed like they might carry D&D stuff. That's how I discovered two gaming stores in Nashua - Hobby Emporium (still open, though no longer carrying games) and The Comic Store (kind of still open, I think the owner is semi-retired).

Walking into Hobby Emporium and seeing all the games from Dragon magazine ads on the shelf was wild. I bought the Car Wars deluxe set. I'd say about half the money I made working that summer ended up in Hobby Emporium's register.

 

[Mannahnin]

We went to the Mall of New Hampshire once in a great while, but that's where I bought my Companion Set way back in the day. I mostly shopped at the Waldenbooks in the Methuen Mall and sometimes found marked down stuff at Child World or KayBee.

Around 1989 or so, my dad changed jobs that summer and had two weeks off. He was bored and wanted something to do, so I looked up a bunch of places in the yellow pages that seemed like they might carry D&D stuff. That's how I discovered two gaming stores in Nashua - Hobby Emporium (still open, though no longer carrying games) and The Comic Store (kind of still open, I think the owner is semi-retired).

Walking into Hobby Emporium and seeing all the games from Dragon magazine ads on the shelf was wild. I bought the Car Wars deluxe set. I'd say about half the money I made working that summer ended up in Hobby Emporium's register.

Aha! Nice. Yes, I remember those Broke Kid days, stopping in to the shops to browse and drool over the stuff on the shelves even if I couldn't take any of it home on a given trip.

I don't think I remember Hobby Emporium, though I discovered the Comic Store in Nashua back then as well, when they were still on Main Street. I think one of my first buys was a whole team of Blood Bowl players, back then available in a big blister, all metal. John is indeed semi-retired, but he still keeps the one shop open (he had a second one in Manchester for a while in the 90s and 2000s), and it's stuffed full of old and new products, as those classic old school shops commonly were.

Nashua also has Relentless Dragon nowadays, which is of the more modern game shop paradigm- brightly lit, clean and spacious, focused on customer service, with well-maintained tables for card and miniatures players.