D&D General Is D&D Beyond Exclusivity Bad for D&D?

[Belen]

You know, that's a good point. During 3e"s era WotC put out a bunch of web supplements and adventures on their website, for free, in PDF. How many people still have all of those? How many people still USE them? How many people even remember them? You can find a lot of it on the wayback machine or stuffed in PDF troves, but I wager most people simply forgot they even existed.

I have them all. I still use some for one shots.

 

[Professor Murder]

Yeah, but how much of that stuff is actually going to be worth keeping?

That's the thing... yes, there's a chance a lot of this stuff will "go away" as advances come and go. But don't we all expect that and have accepted it as a fait accompli? Especially considering who knows if any of that stuff will actually still be wanted and viable in the next 5, 10, 25 years?

I mean back in the early '80s I owned an Atari 2600 and whole bunch of games. And they were good for the time I had them... but eventually I got rid of the system (or it broke or whatever it was that resulted in me no longer using/owning a 2600). Does that bother me? Not at all. I had them at one point, don't have them now, oh well! And that was fine, because I moved onto the Nintendo NES, then the XBox, then the XBox One, etc. And again... almost everything I owned for those systems also lay fallow because I now game on my PC. I pretty much "lost" all those systems and all those games. And that doesn't bother me one bit.

Likewise, a long time ago I owned the Basic D&D rulebooks, the AD&D rulebooks, and the 2E rulebooks, (plus all the acoutrement that came with those games) and I don't own them now. Because I moved on and gave them away. And I've never once felt like it has been an issue that I don't own that material anymore. Which means that if my situation is not unique and in fact is pretty typical-- that people just "move on" to new product and new games etc. etc. every couple of years and they just get rid of the stuff they don't use-- the fact that we can't access some older product anymore for whatever reason (got rid of it, lost it, the system it used was too old, no interest in it anymore) is just not a big deal.

And thus likewise, if that means some random 5E adventure that was written exclusively for D&D Beyond never gets published and eventually it "disappears" if/when DDB eventually goes away (for whatever reason)... I just have zero feelings on the matter. I just don't care. After all... I have lost dozens upon dozens of adventures when I tossed away all my saved Dungeon Magazines from the '80s, so what's another couple from DDB? It's just not a big loss.

I think you answer your own question. You center the issue on yourself and your own experience. But it's not about you. It's about the future. I haven't played the overwhelming majority of videogames, but I can recognize that losing them to the ravages of time is a blow to how people in the future will be able to research and learn about the development of the art form. Hell, the majority of silent films just flat out dont exist. Its a loss.

 

[TheSword]

A few folks have mentioned it but I just can’t see that WotC are going down the enshitification path, not even tiny baby steps.

To do that they would have to tie people to only play on Beyond and I’m sorry there are just too many other ways to play D&D online. Many of which are getting more support than ever before. Foundry for instance has been getting every product within a few days of its Beyond release fully integrated into what is an extremely complex system. That’s a lot of work. There are other VTT that get great support. To be clear this support is much much greater than it was two years ago even, and it was non-existent before that. They are major steps to broadening access not locking it in.

Secondly, WotC isn’t algorithmically trying to control access to what we see on Beyond. Same with DMGuild. If you want something you find it. No barriers. They have metrics to see the most popular items, and multiple ways to search along a theme if you’re interested in supporting materials for a specific adventure. Even if a 3pp felt WotC was screwing them over then they would have lots of alternative methods of publication through alternative VTT. Maybe not as great an audience, but still substantial.

At the end of the day games like the ones we play are just collections of ideas. Even if WotC escalated what it has done already and released its Dark Sun Setting as Beyond only (something they’ve shown no indication of doing, but it is theoretically possible), nothing stops one player in a group having access to that, or access to the numerous comprehensive promotional briefs plugging that back in Foundry or Roll20. Which is how we all did it before those systems got official support.

Final Final though, enshitification relies on the principle that even if you could lock in players (no indication of this) and lock in 3pp (no ability to do this) that they would reduce quality as an end result. This would destroy the book market, and I’m sorry there are just too many alternative systems and TTRPG companies for this to be a viable strategy. The tighter the grip the bigger those alternatives would get. See Pathfinder for details.

 

[Distracted DM]

Final Final though, enshitification relies on the principle that even if you could lock in players (no indication of this) and lock in 3pp (no ability to do this) that they would reduce quality as an end result. This would destroy the book market, and I’m sorry there are just too many alternative systems and TTRPG companies for this to be a viable strategy. The tighter the grip the bigger those alternatives would get. See Pathfinder for details.

The "lock-in" isn't literal- it's mental. People COULD go to a different service, but they're so invested in yours and/or yours has been set as a standard; so you can afford to increase the prices and lower the quality to increase profit. You can afford to make promotions for new customers, to help drive growth, that you would never dream of giving to your existing customers who are already consuming your service.

"It's too bad it's not on DnDBeyond, or I'd buy it!" is what so many creators hear. "Hey can you get it added to DnDBeyond? That's how all my players make their characters." You don't have to lock in 3pp when everyone would want to be on your platform because you're the standard expectation. That shift isn't sudden- it's gradual.

I'm not saying that WotC/D&D is at enshittification. But the bricks are being laid to potentially take that path- and companies that can take that path generally do.
And the walled garden is already a thing- DnDBeyond exclusivity is a thing.

 

[TheSword]

The "lock-in" isn't literal- it's mental. People COULD go to a different service, but they're so invested in yours and/or yours has been set as a standard; so you can afford to increase the prices and lower the quality to increase profit. You can afford to make promotions for new customers, to help drive growth, that you would never dream of giving to your existing customers who are already consuming your service.

"It's too bad it's not on DnDBeyond, or I'd buy it!" is what so many creators hear. "Hey can you get it added to DnDBeyond? That's how all my players make their characters." You don't have to lock in 3pp when everyone would want to be on your platform because you're the standard expectation. That shift isn't sudden- it's gradual.

I'm not saying that WotC/D&D is at enshittification. But the bricks are being laid to potentially take that path- and companies that can take that path generally do.
And the walled garden is already a thing- DnDBeyond exclusivity is a thing.

I appreciate they aren’t physically restrained. They’ve made a product that people want to engage with. But there are many alternative methods of creating a character. Enshitification doesn’t start simply because you have a good product that people want to use. You also have to corner the market otherwise when the enshitification happens they just go to a competitor. It’s not enough to be a little bit sticky. Youtube has effectively cornered the market, it wasn’t just that they have a good video product. Now they may have put their competition out of business by being better but that isn’t what WotC seem to doing. If anything they’re actively working with Beyond’s main competitors.

Regarding 3pp not being on platforms. That is about the 3pp not making a product for that platform. If like many 3ppm they were large enough and would sell enough to make all the coding worthwhile - then they could do it. If the 3pp is self-published though you can’t expect that. In the same way you can’t expect every 3pp to produce a printed book or a set of minis or a computer game spin off.

As I said, it isn’t a walled garden because I take any exclusive data out on Beyond and add that into my foundry campaign, or Roll20 or Home game. They’re selling ideas and a convenient way to access them but they are transferable ideas,

 

[Lanefan]

If you're wrong about your prediction will you wear the hat of shame? Please?

A year or two back I predicted 6e playtest announcement in 2029 for release at GenCon 2031.

Still sticking by that.

If I'm wrong, I'll wear it. Thus far nothing has convinced me so, however.

 

[Lanefan]

Seems to me that many of the people wishing for 6e don't play 5e and quite likely wouldn't play 6e,

Just 'cause some of us ain't got a horse in the race doesn't mean we can't speculate from the sidelines.

And who knows - maybe just maybe they'll make a 6e I'm willing to run and-or play, though I'm not holding my breath on that.

 

[Remathilis]

Just 'cause some of us ain't got a horse in the race doesn't mean we can't speculate from the sidelines.

And who knows - maybe just maybe they'll make a 6e I'm willing to run and-or play, though I'm not holding my breath on that.

Unless 6e is a slipcover over the AD&D 1e PHB, I very much doubt you will...

 

[AlViking]

Just 'cause some of us ain't got a horse in the race doesn't mean we can't speculate from the sidelines.

And who knows - maybe just maybe they'll make a 6e I'm willing to run and-or play, though I'm not holding my breath on that.

You have a version of the game you like and you're happy with it. The odds of another version being so close to what you want that you'll switch to it are slim and none and nobody's heard from Slim for a very long time.

 

[Alzrius]

You know, that's a good point. During 3e"s era WotC put out a bunch of web supplements and adventures on their website, for free, in PDF. How many people still have all of those? How many people still USE them? How many people even remember them? You can find a lot of it on the wayback machine or stuffed in PDF troves, but I wager most people simply forgot they even existed.

That's not a good point. That's literally the opposite of a good point. "Not enough people care (where 'enough' is conveniently undefined) about these things, so they aren't worth keeping" ignores the fact that some people do care, and respecting that is the definition of empathy.

I've personally located multiple files for people here on these forums who were looking for that old content. That alone makes it worth keeping; I don't think the costs of maintaining those old pages were going to break WotC's budget.