AD&D 2E Do you consider the Handbooks canon?

[Dire Bare]

We used them pretty much without question. Even the Bladesinger was used and it wasn't banned.

I've always loved the bladesinger as a concept, but have never played one in game! Not in 2E, not since.

I'll have to remedy that in my next game!

 

[Sacrosanct]

In fact, the only problem other players had was not with the Bladesinger, but with the guy who played a psionicist when that book came out. In hindsight, I think it was more because the player was a min/maxer (and generally arrogant guy) and less that the class was truly broken.

 

[Dire Bare]

In fact, the only problem other players had was not with the Bladesinger, but with the guy who played a psionicist when that book came out. In hindsight, I think it was more because the player was a min/maxer (and generally arrogant guy) and less that the class was truly broken.

Good players can take an unbalanced or "broken" option and make it sing!

Bad players . . . . well, they are why DM's "ban" a lot of options outside the core rules at the table . . . .

 

[TwoSix]

Good players can take an unbalanced or "broken" option and make it sing!

Bad players . . . . well, they are why DM's "ban" a lot of options outside the core rules at the table . . . .

There's a lot of practical optimization that can be done by using social engineering, so that even if your own contributions are relatively strong compared to other players, it doesn't cause any game friction.

Chief among them is not being a jerk; downplay your own contributions and emphasize the effects of other player's contributions. Celebrate the rogue's big sneak attack crit, or the wizard's fireball, especially when you actually did twice the damage they did overall.

 

[haakon1]

The PHBR series was popular . . . so somebody was using those books in their games!

I suspect a high percentage of 2e books were bought but never used. I think that’s true in general for RPG’s, but more so if Morris is right that there were 1000 2e books.

Did anyone actually run “A Mighty Fortress”, or “Council of Dragons”? Now, those are setting books, but the same principal of bought but not used might apply broadly.

 

[Dire Bare]

I suspect a high percentage of 2e books were bought but never used. I think that’s true in general for RPG’s, but more so if Morris is right that there were 1000 2e books.

Did anyone actually run “A Mighty Fortress”, or “Council of Dragons”? Now, those are setting books, but the same principal of bought but not used might apply broadly.

I had the entire run of the PHBR series, read them all cover to cover, but never managed to create a character using one of the options in those books, or convince one of my players to do so.

"Forever DMs" obsessed with D&D certainly do purchase a lot of books that get read but never used. But I suspect that's less true for players.

I doubt that players were purchasing those books in numbers that convinced TSR to expand the line to over 15 titles. But . . . hard to know.

Somebody was purchasing and using those books. How many players within the larger 2E community at the time? I don't think we can really know.

 

[Mannahnin]

I suspect a high percentage of 2e books were bought but never used. I think that’s true in general for RPG’s, but more so if Morris is right that there were 1000 2e books.

Did anyone actually run “A Mighty Fortress”, or “Council of Dragons”? Now, those are setting books, but the same principal of bought but not used might apply broadly.

One of my groups started a Council of Wyrms game, though it didn't last long. 30ish years later I can't recall if that's because it didn't grab the group, or because our main DM at the time lost interest and moved on to a new concept he was in love with. For a while there he was burning through them fairly quickly. Extremely creative guy but at times mercurial. And most of the time the rest of us weren't keeping up with all his reading, so we didn't always grok what he found super compelling about a given setting or campaign idea.

 

[Voadam]

I had the entire run of the PHBR series, read them all cover to cover, but never managed to create a character using one of the options in those books, or convince one of my players to do so.

Wow. So you played in games that did not allow stuff from them and none of your players ever even chose to take a kit?

My eponymous character started out right after I got the Complete Fighter one and the DM said go ahead and use it and I did. Myrmidon kit, blades weapon group proficiency, two weapon fighting style, and the drusus gladius short sword. Once he switched class to mage he eventually got a bunch of spells from the Complete Wizard one.

 

[Dire Bare]

Wow. So you played in games that did not allow stuff from them and none of your players ever even chose to take a kit?

My eponymous character started out right after I got the Complete Fighter one and the DM said go ahead and use it and I did. Myrmidon kit, blades weapon group proficiency, two weapon fighting style, and the drusus gladius short sword. Once he switched class to mage he eventually got a bunch of spells from the Complete Wizard one.

I bought a lot of books in the 80s, but didn't play a lot of D&D. Started playing a lot more in the 90s (college), but we never managed to keep regular games going, we were all so busy.

I not only allowed my players to take options from the PHBR series, I encouraged it! Nobody was interested, however. To be fair, I had the books, they didn't, and they already had character concepts ready to go.

When I got to play . . . I wasn't told "no", I just didn't create enough PCs of my own to get around to it.

 

[Voadam]

Well, the Complete Fighter's Handbook, for example, introduced using Int language slots for weapon proficiencies

Close, it was already an optional rule in the PH, the PHBR says it offers so many things with proficiencies you need to use that rule.

PHBR1 page 58:

Intelligence and Proficiencies
We're going to be showing you a lot of interesting things you can do with the Weapon Proficiencies rules. Therefore, you need to use the rule for extra Proficiencies given on page 51 of the Player's Handbook. There, it says that you may, with the DM's permission, take extra proficiencies when first created equal to the number of extra languages the character gets from high Intelligence (see Table 4, page 16, Player's Handbook). These extra proficiencies may be divided as the player chooses between Weapon Proficiencies and Nonweapon Proficiencies.

In the revised 2e PH the proficiency thing is on page 22:

If the DM allows characters to have proficiencies, this column also indicates the number of extra proficiency slots the character gains due to his Intelligence. These extra proficiency slots can be used however the player desires. The character never needs to spend any proficiency slots to speak his native language.