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What is your general impression of RPGers? Forked Thread: WotC tryin to kill FLGS?
- Thread starter Mark
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Agamon
Adventurer
I was sitting down at a movie, and the province of Alberta has anti-obesity ad running with the following quip from a bespectacled, curly-haired kid with his arm around a cute girl:
"I used to be an 8th level dungeon master. Now look at me!"
Granted, in the two groups I play in, 4 of the players would be considered obese (not greatly obese, but obviously overweight), but the other 7 are not. 5 are married, 1 is female, all are employed, 3 wear glasses, none have a body odor problem. In fact, I know no gamers with BO problems, I think this is a con thing....
"I used to be an 8th level dungeon master. Now look at me!"
Granted, in the two groups I play in, 4 of the players would be considered obese (not greatly obese, but obviously overweight), but the other 7 are not. 5 are married, 1 is female, all are employed, 3 wear glasses, none have a body odor problem. In fact, I know no gamers with BO problems, I think this is a con thing....
Bagpuss
Legend
I have to agree with Frank, and I'll add he's not painting a particularly negative view of RPGers, just a realistic view of how they will behave as customers if playing in store.
If seen a number of RPG and CCG game events in stores, and CCG events will always shift more stock.
On top of the reasons Frank mentioned. A CCG player can instantly make use of stuff he buys there and then. An RPGer isn't going to be able to make use of a book he buys because it needs to be read first.
You might get one or two impulse purchases because you manage to get the RPG player into your store, and he happens to spot something new, but there isn't the immediacy or need that a CCG player has.
If seen a number of RPG and CCG game events in stores, and CCG events will always shift more stock.
On top of the reasons Frank mentioned. A CCG player can instantly make use of stuff he buys there and then. An RPGer isn't going to be able to make use of a book he buys because it needs to be read first.
You might get one or two impulse purchases because you manage to get the RPG player into your store, and he happens to spot something new, but there isn't the immediacy or need that a CCG player has.
Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
Ahhh. There it is. That original statement is my general impression of customers, mayhap the bulk of humanity, notably those who would be in any store over a extended time.
Thanks for clarifying, Frank, and sorry if I mischaracterized your position.
Rokes wife is a hottie.
Terramotus
First Post
There's a difference between RPGers and Gaming Store Dwellers. RPGers come in all types, and are generally normal folks. Fun to play with, interesting people. Lots of people pop into game stores to buy books (or other game stores, or buy them online), but typically get what they want and go home. They don't stay to play.
Gaming Store Dwellers, on the other hand, use the Game Store as their chief form of social interaction. They're the guys that are always in the game store playing. They tend to have little to no ability to interact with the opposite sex, are overly rigid in their opinions (and thus are harder to get a group together for a specific game), and usually have serious mental baggage that has to be tap-danced around (can't deal with certain types of plots, game systems, characters not being the best, characters not being able to do everything, characters getting damaged at all, not playing Bob the Rogue version 38, etc..) They're, I think, a minority in this hobby, but have FAR more visibility and influence than their numbers would imply.
I won't game with people I meet at the game store, or who search for gaming groups through the game store anymore. It's not worth it. Because searching that way usually means they have no other social network to fall back on. Yeah, there's a chance I'm missing out on some good people there, but in my experience it's not bloody likely.
My current gaming group consists of my wife, my best friend, and a few other folks I've met at work, or through people I know at work. And a funny thing happened - I discovered that there were lots of people around who had played D&D before, but had never been involved in a really good campaign, or had lapsed out of playing, and would jump at the opportunity to join a good game. Closet gamers, if you will. They're generally well-adjusted people and are SO much easier to DM for.
EDIT: Incidentally, I support my FLGS, because I like having all of the selection there to check out, and enjoy the occasional comic. But if I ran one, I'd charge for table space for having to put up with a bunch of RPG freeloaders that never buy anything. At least there's D&D minis. Warhammer stuff is worse, though. From what I've heard, a lot of stores around here have banned Warhammer play or placed minimum purchase amounts on table space, since they buy virtually all of their stuff on Ebay, due to the extremely high retail prices.
Gaming Store Dwellers, on the other hand, use the Game Store as their chief form of social interaction. They're the guys that are always in the game store playing. They tend to have little to no ability to interact with the opposite sex, are overly rigid in their opinions (and thus are harder to get a group together for a specific game), and usually have serious mental baggage that has to be tap-danced around (can't deal with certain types of plots, game systems, characters not being the best, characters not being able to do everything, characters getting damaged at all, not playing Bob the Rogue version 38, etc..) They're, I think, a minority in this hobby, but have FAR more visibility and influence than their numbers would imply.
I won't game with people I meet at the game store, or who search for gaming groups through the game store anymore. It's not worth it. Because searching that way usually means they have no other social network to fall back on. Yeah, there's a chance I'm missing out on some good people there, but in my experience it's not bloody likely.
My current gaming group consists of my wife, my best friend, and a few other folks I've met at work, or through people I know at work. And a funny thing happened - I discovered that there were lots of people around who had played D&D before, but had never been involved in a really good campaign, or had lapsed out of playing, and would jump at the opportunity to join a good game. Closet gamers, if you will. They're generally well-adjusted people and are SO much easier to DM for.
EDIT: Incidentally, I support my FLGS, because I like having all of the selection there to check out, and enjoy the occasional comic. But if I ran one, I'd charge for table space for having to put up with a bunch of RPG freeloaders that never buy anything. At least there's D&D minis. Warhammer stuff is worse, though. From what I've heard, a lot of stores around here have banned Warhammer play or placed minimum purchase amounts on table space, since they buy virtually all of their stuff on Ebay, due to the extremely high retail prices.
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Wombat
First Post
Okay, I am speaking in very broad terms here, but I thought I might give a longer historical view...
I started with miniature wargames and AH boardgames back around 1970 and have kept gaming ever since.
In the pre-rpg days, gamers were male and white, pretty much period. They were also primarily interested in history, meaning almost entirely military with a dash of political and little to no social, and were into minutiae. They were above the curve in intelligence and somewhat below the curve in social abilities. There was a greater interest in science fiction than fantasy amongst those who read genre fiction -- in those days there was a pretty hard "sneer divide" between the two as sci fi was seen as the more "serious" literature, while fantasy was seen as "childish", but both kinds of books tended to be hidden in bookstores in odd corners.
The early days of rpgs brought a slightly different mix to the games. Again the gamers were white (actually pasty pale) and male, but they were also geekier and more interested in fantasy (although there was a strong sub-segment of sci fi fans ... which led to an interest in not only Traveller, but also psionics in D&D groups). The image of the immature, socially awkward, fat, and bizarre as the standard gamer was pretty standard ... coupled with the notion that the standard gamer was smarter than your average bear. Early conventions had an interesting miasma to them -- bodily hygiene was pretty low.
As gaming has gone one, the average age of gamers has shifted forward. Where in the early days (late 70s and early 80s) most of the gamers were in their teens and very early 20s, now most groups I have seen are further into their 20s and often into their 30s. Myself, I am about to turn 50 and my current gaming group ranges from 25-38. The hygiene issue has gotten better, but still could do with some improvement. The greatest changes I have seen are those in gender and ethnic mix. There are far, far more (as a percentage) women involved in the hobby than in the early days -- it is uncommon for me to have a game group anymore that does not have one or more women, where when I went to my first convention back around 1979 there were maybe 4 women gaming in toto. And now there are many blacks, asians, latinos, and others involved in gaming -- such as my current gaming group where I am the only white person at the table.
Conversely, the "obviously more intelligent" factor has come down a bit -- this is not such a bad thing, but it does change the tenor of the game.
Still, a lot of rpg-players are so focused on their games that they have a hard time seeing beyond their table/board to see how they appear to outsiders. The obsessive talking about their characters and campaigns, the hogging of space in FLGS, and, the lack of care with their trash. I have seen several games stores where comparatively new customers have been driven away by obsessive gamers.
I started with miniature wargames and AH boardgames back around 1970 and have kept gaming ever since.
In the pre-rpg days, gamers were male and white, pretty much period. They were also primarily interested in history, meaning almost entirely military with a dash of political and little to no social, and were into minutiae. They were above the curve in intelligence and somewhat below the curve in social abilities. There was a greater interest in science fiction than fantasy amongst those who read genre fiction -- in those days there was a pretty hard "sneer divide" between the two as sci fi was seen as the more "serious" literature, while fantasy was seen as "childish", but both kinds of books tended to be hidden in bookstores in odd corners.
The early days of rpgs brought a slightly different mix to the games. Again the gamers were white (actually pasty pale) and male, but they were also geekier and more interested in fantasy (although there was a strong sub-segment of sci fi fans ... which led to an interest in not only Traveller, but also psionics in D&D groups). The image of the immature, socially awkward, fat, and bizarre as the standard gamer was pretty standard ... coupled with the notion that the standard gamer was smarter than your average bear. Early conventions had an interesting miasma to them -- bodily hygiene was pretty low.
As gaming has gone one, the average age of gamers has shifted forward. Where in the early days (late 70s and early 80s) most of the gamers were in their teens and very early 20s, now most groups I have seen are further into their 20s and often into their 30s. Myself, I am about to turn 50 and my current gaming group ranges from 25-38. The hygiene issue has gotten better, but still could do with some improvement. The greatest changes I have seen are those in gender and ethnic mix. There are far, far more (as a percentage) women involved in the hobby than in the early days -- it is uncommon for me to have a game group anymore that does not have one or more women, where when I went to my first convention back around 1979 there were maybe 4 women gaming in toto. And now there are many blacks, asians, latinos, and others involved in gaming -- such as my current gaming group where I am the only white person at the table.
Conversely, the "obviously more intelligent" factor has come down a bit -- this is not such a bad thing, but it does change the tenor of the game.Still, a lot of rpg-players are so focused on their games that they have a hard time seeing beyond their table/board to see how they appear to outsiders. The obsessive talking about their characters and campaigns, the hogging of space in FLGS, and, the lack of care with their trash. I have seen several games stores where comparatively new customers have been driven away by obsessive gamers.
SteveC
Doing the best imitation of myself
As someone who was on the young side of the first generation of gamers, I tend to still see us through that lens: creative, smart, but not too keen on some of the social graces.
I think a lot of the negative aspects of the gamer stereotypes come from the fact that gamers tend to be more accepting of differences because they see themselves as different. When I go to Gen Con I am always a little saddened by the standards of hygiene and overall cleanliness that we've adopted (or haven't adopted, actually).
But with all that said: I'm proud of my hobby and the people in it, because you can always clean up and get a haircut, but it's so much harder to become more intelligent and creative.
--Steve
I think a lot of the negative aspects of the gamer stereotypes come from the fact that gamers tend to be more accepting of differences because they see themselves as different. When I go to Gen Con I am always a little saddened by the standards of hygiene and overall cleanliness that we've adopted (or haven't adopted, actually).
But with all that said: I'm proud of my hobby and the people in it, because you can always clean up and get a haircut, but it's so much harder to become more intelligent and creative.
--Steve
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
It is a fair statement that the most brilliant, imaginative, funny, and suave people I know are male and female gamers.
Of course, I also know a lot of gamers who fall under the other stereotype. I know computer gamers who fall under that stereotype too, and diehard sports fans.
Of course, I also know a lot of gamers who fall under the other stereotype. I know computer gamers who fall under that stereotype too, and diehard sports fans.
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