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Daring the Gods
- Thread starter Istar
- Start date
Dice4Hire
First Post
By RAW, you cannot retrain your god, as the rules for retraining mention the specific things you can retrain, and gods and PPs are not on the at list.
There are also no rules for changing gods in 4E, that I have ever heard about.
Now having two gods (or all of them) is based on the rules not saying specifically you can only choose one. Alignment restrictions would stop having ALL of them, but you could do most. But that is pretty wonky, and I don't think the intended way to do it.
Well you can follow as many gods as you like, and you will probably find that most people in the world follow multiple gods depending on the situation:
Is it winter? - better make a small prayer at the temple of the Raven Queen.
Am I going into battle? - better make an offering to Bane, or maybe Bahamut.
Am I betting my weekly wage on a dog fight? - better ask for Avandra to smile on me.
Am I planting a crop of wheat? - better make an offering at the shrine of Pelor.
So the general population will send prayers to a pantheon of gods, personal to them and dependant on season and their situation and outlook.
Adventurers are slightly different, but only due to the mechanics of faith or in other words actual benefits of following a god granted from magical items. For this reason an adventurer must name a dominant god, items attached to this diety will grant the additional benefits, other items attached to other gods will not.
Changing allegance to another god is possible in game, but for a divine class (who are the only ones who will get a benefit) it should be an important and definate situation. They should probably have either a defining moment where they switch allegance (which will seem obvious to everyone involved and will probably be for plot reasons) or should undertake a small quest or rite of passage, this little system will stop players from abusing the god system at whim whenever they find a better holy symbol.
In my campaign the Paladin of Erathis changed alligence to the Raven Queen when he was visited by a fallen angel of the Raven Queen who persuaded him to do it, tempting him with promises of increased power and offering him Raven Queen blessed (plot) items. This is an example of story based conversion that is fairly straight forward and natural.
Another example from my campaign is an elven ranger who started out following Melora, at epic he became a Harbinger of Doom and was initiated into a cult whose aim (it turned out) was to destroy the world to replace it with the far realms. He didn't really like that idea (and I don't blame him!) so he was approached by Sehanine who converted him to an order of hers that worked against the Harbingers of Doom. This is an example where a PCs choice of God has no real mechanical impact (ranger) so no quest was necessary and the plot weaved itself around his change of mind.
hmm I'm rambling a bit so I'll stop, but I hope this helps.
Is it winter? - better make a small prayer at the temple of the Raven Queen.
Am I going into battle? - better make an offering to Bane, or maybe Bahamut.
Am I betting my weekly wage on a dog fight? - better ask for Avandra to smile on me.
Am I planting a crop of wheat? - better make an offering at the shrine of Pelor.
So the general population will send prayers to a pantheon of gods, personal to them and dependant on season and their situation and outlook.
Adventurers are slightly different, but only due to the mechanics of faith or in other words actual benefits of following a god granted from magical items. For this reason an adventurer must name a dominant god, items attached to this diety will grant the additional benefits, other items attached to other gods will not.
Changing allegance to another god is possible in game, but for a divine class (who are the only ones who will get a benefit) it should be an important and definate situation. They should probably have either a defining moment where they switch allegance (which will seem obvious to everyone involved and will probably be for plot reasons) or should undertake a small quest or rite of passage, this little system will stop players from abusing the god system at whim whenever they find a better holy symbol.
In my campaign the Paladin of Erathis changed alligence to the Raven Queen when he was visited by a fallen angel of the Raven Queen who persuaded him to do it, tempting him with promises of increased power and offering him Raven Queen blessed (plot) items. This is an example of story based conversion that is fairly straight forward and natural.
Another example from my campaign is an elven ranger who started out following Melora, at epic he became a Harbinger of Doom and was initiated into a cult whose aim (it turned out) was to destroy the world to replace it with the far realms. He didn't really like that idea (and I don't blame him!) so he was approached by Sehanine who converted him to an order of hers that worked against the Harbingers of Doom. This is an example where a PCs choice of God has no real mechanical impact (ranger) so no quest was necessary and the plot weaved itself around his change of mind.
hmm I'm rambling a bit so I'll stop, but I hope this helps.
Great rambling Mesh.
Okay lets get specific.
This is just a Rogue M/C Avenger, he is Kord and this match's a Godsworn Avenger feat he wants which push's your Dex mod on a crit.
Nice, but Moradin has a rather tasty Avenger L16 Utility, that provides Dex. mod Health on a Hit, its a daily stance.
This is not bad either.
So if there are no rules, and Kord and Moradin seem fairly similar in my eyes, I would say this might be a goer as they make quite a good mix.
But I would personally have thought one god per player.
But no harm daring the DM gods is there.
Although I am also fond of Twin Step L22 Avenger utility.
Teleport 8, Steel Entrapment blast 5, AP to repeat, minor action dance, then teleport 8 outa there.
Can you pick the Utlity Swap feat twice and pick up 2 utilities from your M/C ?
Okay lets get specific.
This is just a Rogue M/C Avenger, he is Kord and this match's a Godsworn Avenger feat he wants which push's your Dex mod on a crit.
Nice, but Moradin has a rather tasty Avenger L16 Utility, that provides Dex. mod Health on a Hit, its a daily stance.
This is not bad either.
So if there are no rules, and Kord and Moradin seem fairly similar in my eyes, I would say this might be a goer as they make quite a good mix.
But I would personally have thought one god per player.
But no harm daring the DM gods is there.
Although I am also fond of Twin Step L22 Avenger utility.
Teleport 8, Steel Entrapment blast 5, AP to repeat, minor action dance, then teleport 8 outa there.
Can you pick the Utlity Swap feat twice and pick up 2 utilities from your M/C ?
Black Knight Irios
Explorer
No, if the feat doesn't state that you can pick it twice you can't.
EDIT:
Two or more gods, yes or no? -- As a cleric, yes, you could have any number: PHB1 P61/62 Clerics and Deities. As an avenger no - only one: PHB2 P33 Avengers and Deities.
Last edited:
Smoke Jaguar
First Post
That makes sense. I would think that some characters could have multiple and some would be limited to one like the avenger or paladin.
DarkLord Of DForce
First Post
Hmm, as a DM, I think I would say, sure - worship any number of Gods you like - but you can only take the benefits from -one- primary God.
With that in mind, and to make things more interesting/complicated, check out Divine Power, somewhere around pages 15-17. (see attachment).
Attachments
Where does it say you cant pick a feat twice ?
Ebylon
First Post
Generally, you can’t take the same feat more than
once, and most of the time you wouldn’t want to. A few
feats, however, specify that you can take the same feat
multiple times. That means you can apply the bonus
from the feat to more than one situation—multiple
weapon groups, powers you know, and so on.
Page 192, PHB
Mechanically I really think this is the way to go.
However on a broader note:
The problem (?) with divinity in D&D is that it isn’t really about faith at all, it is more about affinity.
In D&D you know the gods exist, you can even go and visit them in their ‘heaven’ if you like. So it’s not really faith at all, you don’t have a choice about whether you believe that the Raven Queen is the god of death or not, she is, and she is literally in the shadowfell sorting souls. The question is whether you think you have a special connection to a gods motivations and domains and whether you identify with a god enough to invest enough commitment to become its willing ally. This commitment manifests in the ability to activate attuned magical items, or assume certain paragon paths and epic destinies.
As I have said before in a world where the gods are very real and active it is highly probable that most people will honour a pantheon of gods. However it would probably be usual that individuals would hold one god in higher esteem than the others, and that one god would be an icon of their own core belief and help define them.
An interesting thing that to my knowledge is never really discussed in the books is what do the gods do with the souls they collect?
We know:
- The Raven Queen is responsible for collecting them and sending them on.
- Devils and Demons use them as a source of power, or manifest them as slaves.
- Tiamat collects them and stores them as a writhing pit of maggots which is her most prized possession.
- A select few souls live on in astral domains as a gift from the appropriate gods.
But that’s it really. What really happens?
In my opinion the gods aren’t really that different to demons and devils, put bluntly they harvest souls as a power source to maintain their domains and power their abilities. It is the hidden truth behind the curtain of dogma and propaganda, and the reason behind their reliance (and the importance of) the middle world.
