Converting "Real World" Animals and Vermin

Shade said:

I'd be fine with that advancement and the racial bonus to swim.

Is there real-world justification for cutting its climb speed? I'm OK with it being universally better than the leopard if it actually is so in real life.

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From what I've read, Jaguars are good climbers but Leopards are better.

Jaguars do hunt in trees, and sometimes drag their kills into a tree for safety, so we could easily give them the same climbing ability as Leopards if you wanted. I don't believe they're "habitual" climbers like Leopards are, who they spend a lot of time in trees.

A bit of googling found a few comparison threads:
So, I guess you pays your money and makes your choice.

If anything, I'd say that would justify a point or two of different in Climb skill bonus. But since the climb speed grants a +8, and I don't want to deny the jaguar a climb speed, let's keep 'em even. If I were to do 'em all at once, I'd have given the jaguar an even higher Climb modifier (or Skill Focus [climb] as a bonus feat).

Shade said:

If anything, I'd say that would justify a point or two of different in Climb skill bonus. But since the climb speed grants a +8, and I don't want to deny the jaguar a climb speed, let's keep 'em even. If I were to do 'em all at once, I'd have given the jaguar an even higher Climb modifier (or Skill Focus [climb] as a bonus feat).

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Don't you mean give the Leopard a Climb boost it we were redoing them all?

So, you'd like to leave the Jaguar's Climb speed the same as the SRD Leopard.

What about the racial bonus to Swim? I'm thinking at least +4, like the SRD Brown Bear and Black Bear. Arguably, Jaguars spend more time hunting in the water than bears, so I'm wondering whether we should make it +5 or +6.

Cleon said:

Don't you mean give the Leopard a Climb boost it we were redoing them all?

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Yes.

Cleon said:

So, you'd like to leave the Jaguar's Climb speed the same as the SRD Leopard.

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Indeed.

Cleon said:

What about the racial bonus to Swim? I'm thinking at least +4, like the SRD Brown Bear and Black Bear. Arguably, Jaguars spend more time hunting in the water than bears, so I'm wondering whether we should make it +5 or +6.

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I'm good with +6.

Shade said:

Yes.

Indeed.

I'm good with +6.

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Righty-oh. I'll start a Working Draft, then.

Jaguar Working Draft

Jaguar
Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 4d8+8 (26 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft (8 squares), climb 20 ft.
Armor Class: 15 (+4 Dex, +1 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 11
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+7
Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d8+4)
Full Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d8+4) and 2 claws +5 melee (1d3+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, pounce, rake 1d3+2
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +8, Will +2
Abilities: Str 19, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills: Balance +10, Climb +12, Hide +8*, Jump +11, Listen +6, Move Silently +8, Spot +6, Swim +10
Feats: Alertness, Multiattack (B), Weapon Finesse
Environment: Warm forests
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 3
Advancement: 5-6 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: —

These jungle cats resemble leopards, but are somewhat larger and more heavily built. A jaguar's fur has fewer and larger spots than a leopard. They prefer to hunt at dawn or dusk. A jaguar has very powerful jaws for tackling large or tough animals such as tapir, deer, turtles, or constrictor snakes, but will catch prey as tiny as mice if nothing better is available.

Jaguars are about 5 feet long and weigh about 180 pounds.

Combat

Jaguars prefer to pounce upon their prey from hiding.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a jaguar must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake.

Pounce (Ex): If a jaguar charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.

Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +7 melee, damage 1d3+2.

Skills
Jaguars have a +6 racial bonus on Balance, Jump and Swim checks. Jaguars also have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. Jaguars have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened. *In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +8.

Okay then, how about reducing the Jaguar's racial boni to Balance and Jump to +6 or +4, thereby making them slightly less agile than a leopard?

Also, Jaguars have very powerful bites for their size, and the AD&D version has a 1d8 bite and 1d3 claws versus a leopard's 1d6 bite and 1d3 claws. How about doing the same for this conversion?

Cleon said:

Okay then, how about reducing the Jaguar's racial boni to Balance and Jump to +6 or +4, thereby making them slightly less agile than a leopard?

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I'm fine with lowering Balance to +6 (it's still better than a lion or tiger), and am slightly less comfortable making them poorer jumpers.

Cleon said:

Also, Jaguars have very powerful bites for their size, and the AD&D version has a 1d8 bite and 1d3 claws versus a leopard's 1d6 bite and 1d3 claws. How about doing the same for this conversion?

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That puts them on par with a lion. Is that OK? It's Str is still 2 less than a lion, so it will average 1 less point of damage. Is that enough?

That's probably ok.

Shade said:

I'm fine with lowering Balance to +6 (it's still better than a lion or tiger), and am slightly less comfortable making them poorer jumpers.

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If we give them +6 in both its overall Jump modifier will only be 1 lower than the SRD Leopard, since it has a higher Strength.

Shade said:

That puts them on par with a lion. Is that OK? It's Str is still 2 less than a lion, so it will average 1 less point of damage. Is that enough?

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Well, what Challenge Rating are we aiming for them? Do we want to keep them CR 2 like a Leopard or make them CR 3 like a Lion? If the latter, it'll be a low-end CR3 unless we give them a little 'kick' upwards. Maybe the Multiattack feat?