Converting "Real World" Animals and Vermin

[Shade]

So, any interest in doing the Mountain Lion?

Its AD&D stats are almost identical to a Leopard, and a Cougar is pretty much the same weight as a Leopard (~60-200 pounds), averaging about 120 pounds.

Pumas might be better at leaping long distances than leopards, having long, flexible bodies and powerful hind legs. However, I had trouble finding reliable figures for their leaping ability. Some of them quote distances of 15-18 feet vertically and 30-60 feet horizontally. The latter seems way too much, since from what I've read, Snow Leopards are among the best long-jumpers among the Great Cats and they can jump distances of 40-50 feet.

A 30 ft. horizontal or 15 ft. vertical jump is achievable on a high roll with the SRD Leopard's +11 Jump, but if we want an average of 30 feet it'll need a higher racial bonus of +12 or so. (Maybe +20 for a Snow Leopard?)

Hmm...that's so barely different I'm not sure it justifieds a conversion. Still...if you're game, I'm game.

 

[Cleon]

Hmm...that's so barely different I'm not sure it justifieds a conversion. Still...if you're game, I'm game.

Yes, I'm not sure whether we should bother with it either.

Shall we just move on the the Spotted Lion (aka Cave Lion)?

 

[Shade]

Yes, I'm not sure whether we should bother with it either.

Shall we just move on the the Spotted Lion (aka Cave Lion)?

Let's do so.

 

[GrayLinnorm]

The spotted lion is the same as the dire lion (gee, I wonder why they changed it?).

 

[Cleon]

The spotted lion is the same as the dire lion (gee, I wonder why they changed it?).

As far as I know, the Dire Lion isn't officially identified as being the Spotted Lion or Cave Lion, so we're free to stat it up separately.

If we do, it'll have pretty similar stats to a Dire Lion, though.

Here's the Monstrous Manual version:

Spotted Lion
Climate/Terrain: Warm plains and desert
Frequency: Rare
Organization: Pride
Activity Cycle: Day
Diet: Carnivorous
Intelligence: Semi (2-4)
Treasure: Nil
Alignment: Neutral
No. Appearing: 2-8 (2d4)
Armor Class: 5/6
Movement: 12
Hit Dice: 6+2
THAC0: 15
No. of Attacks: 3
Damage/Attack: 1-4/1-4/1-12
Special Attacks: Rear claws 2-8 (2d4) each
Special Defenses: Surprised only on a 1
Magic Resistance: Nil
Size: L (4½’-6½’ long)
Morale: Average (8-10)
XP Value: 975

Spotted lions are large, fierce, dappled versions of the lion. They are generally found in the plains of the Pleistocene epoch, and rarely occur elsewhere.
​

Compared to the other AD&D 2E Great Cats, it's intermediary between the Wild Tiger and Smilodon.

Wild Tiger: HD 5+2, AC 6, 1d4+1 claws & 1d10 bite, 2d4 rear claws
Cave Lion: HD 6+2, AC 5/6, 1d4 claws & 1d12 bite, 2d4 rear claws
Smilodon: HD 7+2, AC 6, 1d4+1 claws & 2d6 bite, 2d4 rear claws

Note its claws only do 1d4 (like a regular Lion), but its bite does more than an AD&D Wild Tiger or Lion's 1d10.

I guess the first question is do we make this a regular Animal or Dire Animal?

I'm leaning towards ordinary Animal, to distinguish it from the Dire Lion.

Give it a 1d10 or 2d6 bite?

7 HD, to distinguish it from 3E's Tiger (6 HD), Dire Lion (8 HD) and Smilodon (9 HD)?

Hold on, I just remembered we've already got a 3.0 version of the Spotted Lion in the Creature Catalog.

We could just update that...

Hmm, I don't like the 18 Dexterity. I'd go for 15-17.

They weren't as heavily built as a Smilodon, so maybe we shouldn't give them that high a Con.

Str 23, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 6 ? d4+6 claws, 2d6+3 bite?

Do we keep the 6 HD like in the CC?

 

[freyar]

We should update the 3.0 version, but I generally like your suggested changes. I think I'd go for the full Str bonus on the bite, though. And let's bump to 7HD.

 

[Shade]

We should update the 3.0 version, but I generally like your suggested changes. I think I'd go for the full Str bonus on the bite, though. And let's bump to 7HD.

Agreed on all counts.

 

[Cleon]

We should update the 3.0 version, but I generally like your suggested changes. I think I'd go for the full Str bonus on the bite, though. And let's bump to 7HD.

Are you suggesting we give it a "Powerful Bite" type SA which gives the bite the full +Str, or do you want to make the bite its primary attack and the claws secondary, like the Frostburn Smilodon?

 

[Cleon]

Agreed on all counts.

That's enough to start a Working Draft, then. I'll use the "Powerful Bite" option, for the time being.

 

[Cleon]

Spotted Lion Working Draft

Lion, Spotted
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 7d8+14 (45 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 40 ft (8 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (-1 size, +3 Dex, +4 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+15
Attack: Claw +10 melee (1d4+6)
Full Attack: 2 claws +10 melee (1d4+6) and bite +8 melee (2d6+6)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, pounce, powerful bite, rake 1d4+3
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +3
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 6
Skills: Balance +7, Hide +3*, Jump +10, Listen +6, Move Silently +11, Spot +6
Feats: Alertness, Multiattack, Run
Environment: Temperate and warm plains
Organization: Solitary, pair or pride (3-8)
Challenge Rating: 4
Advancement: 8-12 HD (Large); 13-21 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —

A massively built lion, its fur is dappled with spots.

Also known as cave lions, spotted lions are a prehistoric race of lion. They are bigger and more muscular than modern lions to cope with the more powerful prey of prehistoric times, but are otherwise similar in their habits to ordinary lions.

A spotted lion is 7 or 8 feet long, stands around 4 feet tall at the shoulder, and weighs 400 to 800 pounds.

Combat
A spotted lion charges prey, pouncing upon them once in range. It then claws and bites as it rakes with its rear claws. They often attack larger opponents.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a spotted lion must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake.

Powerful Bite (Ex): A spotted lion applies its full strength bonus to its bite damage.

Pounce (Ex): If a spotted lion charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.

Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +10 melee, damage 1d4+3.

Skills: Spotted lions have a +4 racial bonus on Balance, Hide, and Move Silently checks.

*In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +12.