D&D 5E Wish and the requirement removal

amaricasper said:

If it exists, it's a valid target and you need to guess it's location. If it doesn't exist, it is an invalid target and therefore can't be targeted.

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But what if you simply don't know whether a valid target exists or not within your spell's range?

It's relevant because there's some who'd interpret it such that without a valid target you can't even declare you're trying to cast the spell at all - which is IMO dumb as **** but if that's how they wanna do it...

EDIT TO ADD: Welcome aboard! Have some xp!

Theo R Cwithin said:

Just out of curiosity, what spells tend to be cast using this particular feature of wish?

(Asking as someone who's never played to high levels in 5e.)

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Pretty much any high level spell that's not on your list, honestly. Everyone's going to have their favorites, but the big healing/curative spells are popular. Wizards also don't have a lot of access to radiant damage if that comes up.

Lanefan said:

The questions are arising from situations where the caster simply doesn't know if her target exists or not, or is where she thinks it is or not.

If there's no statues in the room and I cast a spell - let's say Stone to Flesh - targeting the statue in the corner, the spell's going to do nothing (and I-as-player probably need more beer or less beer, depending how deep into the session we are) because there ain't no statue to target. But I've still gone through the motions, I've still cast a useless spell, and I've still burned up the slot.

But if I walk into an empty room and suspect there's someone invisible in there, what can possibly stop me from declaring I'm casting a spell targeting this point here on the map, kind of like a trial-by-error fishing expedition? If there's nothing there, I've wasted the spell as above. If I get lucky and there just happens to be something there, yay for me.

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In 5e, you can't target spells at nothing that have the specific requirement of "creature you can see." Most targeted (non-AOE) spells that impose saving throws fall into that category. Spells with attack rolls, by contrast, can in fact be blind-fired. You do have Disadvantage on the roll, though. There is nothing in the description of Scorching Ray, Ray of Sickness, or Ray of Frost requiring you to see the target. By contrast, Toll the Dead, Disintegrate, and Hold Person all require a visible target.

Asisreo said:

So wish says that you don't need to meet the requirements in that spell, it simply takes effect. Now, it mentions that this includes costly components but it doesn't say that it's only costly components.

Would that mean, say, I wanted to cast resurrection. Would that remove the requirement that they are dead for no longer than a century, etc. Those seem like explicit requirements. Would that affect the size requirement of objects in nondetection? Does a creature have to be willing to have mage armor applied to it? Are the ranges of the spells bypassed? We know the casting time and material components are. Is concentration a requirement?

I know it might seem like I'm asking alot and it might be making the spell more powerful than it is but I want to know, just in case.

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Wish is the ultimate expression of the magician's will. It allows them to change reality in a specific way without the crutches that lesser spell casters require. It also obviates any material component needed to allow lesser spells to manifest in the material world.

Now, I am only roughly familiar with 5e. I have read the PHB, but not played.

If the wish is simply duplicating a spell, it has the same parameters, perhaps magnified if the spell is significantly lower level. Obviously, material component costs are obviated. As a number of spells in 5e have specific effects for being cast with a higher level spell slot, the guidance is already present. For a spell like non-detection (4th level?), as wish is twice the level I would allow a larger area, but not unlimited, to be affected. Perhaps twice as much depending on how it is measured. Unwilling targets almost always get a save. If the spell is 6th level or less, concentration is not required for an hour or so, as appropriate. (Personal decision)

As always, the "don't be a jerk" rule is in effect. If there is something that the magician wants that is marginal or beyond the scope of the spell, the character is high enough level to know that going in.

NB: For a spell like firebolt, if they are casting it at an invisible target, they pick the square and roll to hit with the appropriate modifiers. If there is no standard attack roll it has one now. If there is nothing in the square or the roll is a miss, the bolt continues at chest height until it impacts something or it reaches maximum range. If this spell is similar to magic missile in that you can only target something you can see, well, then, you have to see the target. If you wish to magic missile an invisible target, you get MM cast with a 7th level slot with a bonus detect invisibility (2nd?).

Theo R Cwithin said:

Just out of curiosity, what spells tend to be cast using this particular feature of wish?

(Asking as someone who's never played to high levels in 5e.)

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I haven't either, but Hallow is one that's often occurred to me. It's a good spell for applying a permanent effect to an area, including some that can be of immediate hindrance to certain categories of enemy, and Wishing for it gets around both a significant material cost and a very long casting time.

MarkB said:

I haven't either, but Hallow is one that's often occurred to me. It's a good spell for applying a permanent effect to an area, including some that can be of immediate hindrance to certain categories of enemy, and Wishing for it gets around both a significant material cost and a very long casting time.

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Simulacrum comes to mind...

Baron Opal II said:

If this spell is similar to magic missile in that you can only target something you can see, well, then, you have to see the target.

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Any interpretation of the rules that doesn't let you cast magic missile at the darkness is just plain wrong.

Looking at the spell last night, the subsequent paragraphs detailing non-spell specific limits make it rather clear, I think. You can basically heal the team plus followers, protect the team from a specific spell or attack, &c. Concerning the non-detection question, I would now say that you could cast a non-detection on 5-6 people for 8 hours, 1 person for about three days, or in a 20 ft radius area lasting 8 hours.

The text of the spell is nearly a column of text delineating the spell's capabilities. I am glad they chose a specific cash limit.

fearsomepirate said:

In 5e, you can't target spells at nothing that have the specific requirement of "creature you can see." Most targeted (non-AOE) spells that impose saving throws fall into that category. Spells with attack rolls, by contrast, can in fact be blind-fired.

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You can fire blind, but you cannot fire at nothing. You still have to have a target, even if you cannot see it.

Maxperson said:

You can fire blind, but you cannot fire at nothing. You still have to have a target, even if you cannot see it.

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I still don't really understand your position here. Say I try to cast firebolt at a space where I think there might be an invisible creature. What are you saying happens differently depending on whether a creature is actually there or not?

jaelis said:

I still don't really understand your position here. Say I try to cast firebolt at a space where I think there might be an invisible creature. What are you saying happens differently depending on whether a creature is actually there or not?

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The rules require you to have a valid target to cast the spell. It's an explicit requirement for a spell to work. I personally don't agree with RAW, so I do it differently in my game, but thems the rules.

So you can't be like, "Hmm. I wonder if there's something in that empty space over there and cast the spell." You aren't targeting anything. You can be like, "I heard something invisible moving in that direction, I'm going to target it in that space" and miss due to it not being in the space you think the creature is in. You targeted a valid target, but got the space wrong.