D&D 5E Wish and the requirement removal

[Maxperson]

So Xanathar's didn't actually address the specifics it seems.

Really though it comes down to a choice: Do I want these spells to detect the presence and type of creatures, illusions, etc?

If the answer is no, I recommend allowing the caster to target something they think is there or believe to be valid. If the target is in fact not there, or in fact not valid, the spell still goes off (the fire bolt strikes the illusion or flies towards the creature you thought was invisible), it just doesn't have any mechanical effect. If you shoot a ray of frost at an object (not a valid target, because it's a creature only spell), it still strikes the object, it just has negligible effect. Really, Jeremy Crawford ought to put that in Sage Advice.

That's a reasonable rule. More hardcore players might just want the spell to fizzle.

 

[Asisreo]

So Xanathar's didn't actually address the specifics it seems.

Really though it comes down to a choice: Do I want these spells to detect the presence and type of creatures, illusions, etc?

If the answer is no, I recommend allowing the caster to target something they think is there or believe to be valid. If the target is in fact not there, or in fact not valid, the spell still goes off (the fire bolt strikes the illusion or flies towards the creature you thought was invisible), it just doesn't have any mechanical effect. If you shoot a ray of frost at an object (not a valid target, because it's a creature only spell), it still strikes the object, it just has negligible effect. Really, Jeremy Crawford ought to put that in Sage Advice.

Wait, what? It's on page 85 of Xanathar's. Invalid targets.

 

[Maxperson]

Wait, what? It's on page 85 of Xanathar's. Invalid targets.

It covers 90% of this, but not 100%. It still requires that you be targeting something in order for that target to be valid or invalid. It doesn't cover what happens if no target is there to target at all.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Just out of curiosity, what spells tend to be cast using this particular feature of wish?

(Asking as someone who's never played to high levels in 5e.)

 

[Asisreo]

It covers 90% of this, but not 100%. It still requires that you be targeting something in order for that target to be valid or invalid. It doesn't cover what happens if no target is there to target at all.

Well, that's silly. The PHB says in order to target something, you need a clear path to it. If that something doesn't exist, there is no such path. Therefore, there is no way to target something that doesn't exist.

 

[Maxperson]

Well, that's silly. The PHB says in order to target something, you need a clear path to it. If that something doesn't exist, there is no such path. Therefore, there is no way to target something that doesn't exist.

This is about a suspected invisible target. It may not be present.

 

[Asisreo]

This is about a suspected invisible target. It may not be present.

Well, if you're targeting an invisible creature in range, and none exists, then it's a nonexistant target. If it does exist, you must guess its location.

Of course, a DM would probably have them guess a location anyways to keep them from metagaming.

 

[Lanefan]

Well, that's silly. The PHB says in order to target something, you need a clear path to it. If that something doesn't exist, there is no such path. Therefore, there is no way to target something that doesn't exist.

The questions are arising from situations where the caster simply doesn't know if her target exists or not, or is where she thinks it is or not.

If there's no statues in the room and I cast a spell - let's say Stone to Flesh - targeting the statue in the corner, the spell's going to do nothing (and I-as-player probably need more beer or less beer, depending how deep into the session we are) because there ain't no statue to target. But I've still gone through the motions, I've still cast a useless spell, and I've still burned up the slot.

But if I walk into an empty room and suspect there's someone invisible in there, what can possibly stop me from declaring I'm casting a spell targeting this point here on the map, kind of like a trial-by-error fishing expedition? If there's nothing there, I've wasted the spell as above. If I get lucky and there just happens to be something there, yay for me.

 

[Asisreo]

The questions are arising from situations where the caster simply doesn't know if her target exists or not, or is where she thinks it is or not.

If there's no statues in the room and I cast a spell - let's say Stone to Flesh - targeting the statue in the corner, the spell's going to do nothing (and I-as-player probably need more beer or less beer, depending how deep into the session we are) because there ain't no statue to target. But I've still gone through the motions, I've still cast a useless spell, and I've still burned up the slot.

But if I walk into an empty room and suspect there's someone invisible in there, what can possibly stop me from declaring I'm casting a spell targeting this point here on the map, kind of like a trial-by-error fishing expedition? If there's nothing there, I've wasted the spell as above. If I get lucky and there just happens to be something there, yay for me.

What stops you is the fact that you're targeting a point, not a creature. A point is an invalid target (unless the spell says you target a point, in which case there isn't anything wrong). If you want to target a point, the spellslot is wasted.

If you want to target an invisible creature, you must first declare you're targeting an invisible creature. If it exists, it's a valid target and you need to guess it's location. If it doesn't exist, it is an invalid target and therefore can't be targeted. The spellslot is wasted.

If your player's fishing, whether the creature is there or not, you make them choose a location, roll for attack, and expend the spellslot. No matter if there was a creature or not, unless they accurately guess the location, they can neither confirm or deny the invisible creature. And any invisible creature will see the wizard fishing for it and probably hide behind full cover.

 

[amaricasper]

The questions are arising from situations where the caster simply doesn't know if her target exists or not, or is where she thinks it is or not.

If there's no statues in the room and I cast a spell - let's say Stone to Flesh - targeting the statue in the corner, the spell's going to do nothing (and I-as-player probably need more beer or less beer, depending how deep into the session we are) because there ain't no statue to target. But I've still gone through the motions, I've still cast a useless spell, and I've still burned up the slot.

But if I walk into an empty room and suspect there's someone invisible in there, what can possibly stop me from declaring I'm casting a spell targeting this point here on the map, kind of like a trial-by-error fishing expedition? If there's nothing there, I've wasted the spell as above. If I get lucky and there just happens to be something there, yay for me. Auto clicker for roblox

If it exists, it's a valid target and you need to guess it's location. If it doesn't exist, it is an invalid target and therefore can't be targeted.