D&D 5E Monks Suck

Esker · Jul 31, 2020

Elfcrusher said:
I keep homebrewing monk subclasses that do exactly that. It seems to me very flavorful for the monk.

Not that I'm unhappy with monks, but if I'm being greedy I'd love to see:

+Wis mod to Ki pool

Extra reactions at higher levels

Patient Defense as reaction instead of bonus action

Step of the Wind as free action

Yeah, I think these are the kinds of changes monks need. I don't necessarily think they are enough, but they help. Along similar lines, I would love to see some of monks' defensive options replace single attacks, say, and not cost ki, instead of using a whole bonus action and ki. Because while it's true that they are flexible round to round in the sense that they can roughly match a defensive fighter's defense* when using a bonus action and ki, and they can roughly match a middle-of-the-road offensive fighter's offense when using a bonus action and ki, their offense is worse than that of a defense-oriented fighter when they're focusing on defense, and their defense is worse than an offense-oriented fighter when they're focusing on offense.

*with the caveat that, since sources of disadvantage don't stack, the defensive fighter can go even higher if there's another source of disadvantage in play

CleverNickName · Jul 31, 2020

@doctorbadwolf I'm going to have to point back to my earlier post, where I wrote that some people do not like monks*, and never will. If your DM feels that way, they will always have a reason--even inventing reasons on the fly--but most will just say "because I said so." It's not a satisfying answer, but it's a fair one: the DM can declare certain options in the PHB (and elsewhere) to be off-limits for their campaign world, and they don't need to provide reasons for doing so.

So if the DM says that monks aren't allowed in her campaign (like in the hypothetical situation you gave), and if that's a problem for you, your best course of action is to talk to her privately about why you need to play a monk. If it's genuinely needed for your character concept, and your character concept fits into the game world that the DM has written, you two should be able to find a compromise. But requiring your DM to explain to your satisfaction why monks aren't allowed, or telling the DM that she is wrong for not liking/allowing them in the first place, isn't going to have a happy ending.

*I say "monks" here, but it could be anything: gnomes, dragonborn, warlocks, warforged, spiked chains, wild magic sorcerers, the green flame blade cantrip, mind flayers, horses, the point-buy system for character generation, feats, whatever.

Minigiant · Jul 31, 2020

FrogReaver said:
Maybe you just see the wrong player play monks.

Based on the 3 monks I've seen played and the descriptions I've seen in this discussion, all the monks use the same tactic.

The tactic is fluid and has many variables with tweaks based on subclass, but every monks uses them.

I mean, they all share 4 ki features that they all use frequently which are triggered by the same actions.

Mistwell · Jul 31, 2020

FrogReaver said:
Yep I’ve noticed this too. When we are talking monk and fighter and I bring up the monks stun the conversation immediately shifts to monk vs wizard. Then when I start talking about the monk having higher dpr than a wizard the conversation goes back to fighter.

I have not seen that happen. Can you show me posts where anyone has done that?

FrogReaver · Jul 31, 2020

Mistwell said:
I have not seen that happen. Can you show me posts where anyone has done that?

Nope. I don’t fell like going through the whole thread for you.

FrogReaver · Jul 31, 2020

Minigiant said:
Based on the 3 monks I've seen played and the descriptions I've seen in this discussion, all the monks use the same tactic.

The tactic is fluid and has many variables with tweaks based on subclass, but every monks uses them.

I mean, they all share 4 ki features that they all use frequently which are triggered by the same actions.

If you talking that high level it can be said of any class.

Asisreo · Jul 31, 2020

Minigiant said:
Based on the 3 monks I've seen played and the descriptions I've seen in this discussion, all the monks use the same tactic.

The tactic is fluid and has many variables with tweaks based on subclass, but every monks uses them.

I mean, they all share 4 ki features that they all use frequently which are triggered by the same actions.

Maybe I play differently.

The assumption that you must use Ki every round to be viable is a myth, imo. You'll be fine not using Ki for 40-50% of your overall rounds as a monk.

Minigiant · Jul 31, 2020

FrogReaver said:
If you talking that high level it can be said of any class.

A Dex ranger or fighter can skrimish with mele weapons or snipe foes with a bow or crossbow.
A STR barbarian, paladin, or fighter can go weapon and shield for defense or two handed for damage.
Casters have full on spell lists to swap tactics.

Every single monk zips around the battlefield Flurrying, Stunning, and Stepping in the Wind.

Mistwell · Jul 31, 2020

FrogReaver said:
Nope. I don’t fell like going through the whole thread for you.

For me? You made the allegation.

Asisreo · Jul 31, 2020

Minigiant said:
Every single monk zips around the battlefield Flurrying, Stunning, and Stepping in the Wind.

All of them? You can say that with authoritative proof, or is that your perception?

D&D 5E Monks Suck

Esker

Hero

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing

Minigiant

Legend

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog