D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

I have gnomes and halflings in my game because they illustrate two completely opposite ways of dealing with outsiders.

When humans expanded into formerly gnome or hin territory, the gnomes responded by retreating and hiding. A Gnome community might be only a few miles from a human village, but no-one in the village knows they are there. By contrast, the hin integrated themselves into the society of the invaders.

Two different solutions to the same problem, illustrating a fundamental difference between the races. (After all, if there are not fundamental differences between races then there's no point in having the races in the game).
 

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cbwjm

Seb-wejem
I have gnomes and halflings in my game because they illustrate two completely opposite ways of dealing with outsiders.

When humans expanded into formerly gnome or hin territory, the gnomes responded by retreating and hiding. A Gnome community might be only a few miles from a human village, but no-one in the village knows they are there. By contrast, the hin integrated themselves into the society of the invaders.

Two different solutions to the same problem, illustrating a fundamental difference between the races. (After all, if there are not fundamental differences between races then there's no point in having the races in the game).
This is similar to how I treat gnomes. I run with the old idea that they are skilled illusionists and most gnome villages have an illusionist powerful enough to keep their village hidden. Some people might know/suspect that a village is there somewhere but they won't know where due to powerful illusions and enchantments hiding the village.

I don't really know how to treat halflings. I can go with the standard halfling homes like in the lord of the rings or maybe they live amongst humans. Currently I've got them all living, or at least the ones that are background for the setting, as nomads travelling between towns and running carnivals.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
You are the one fundamentally wrong. You are taking part of the description from the PHB but then actively denying another part from the same source that explicitly calls out that they adventure and gives reasons within their culture and make-up why they do so.

So, either the PHB is right - and Halflings adventure, or the PHB is irrelevant - and Halflings adventure. I'd say take your pick, except your pick seems to try to cherry pick parts of the PHB that supports your point and deny the rest - and that is an non-factual argument I won't continue to entertain.

Again. I'm not saying halflings don't adventure. I'm saying that halfling adventuring often is contingent on rejection of a core aspect of their racial identity. And to me that feels weird as a design choice.

When adopting hobbits, a race not designed to be protagonists, to a game of front facing heroes, a lot more should be changed.

And that's why you see halflings in settings not tied directly to old school D&D or Tolkien trappings have a lot more drive than the default ones in the core books.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Again. I'm not saying halflings don't adventure. I'm saying that halfling adventuring often is contingent on rejection of a core aspect of their racial identity. And to me that feels weird as a design choice.
Outright rejection - no. Deferral - maybe. But even if you think they're deferring the comforts of home and a beer for risk, that's no different from a dwarf deferring satisfying craft and artifice for the same. Yet, you seem to have a blind spot for that by singling out halflings.
When adopting hobbits, a race not designed to be protagonists, to a game of front facing heroes, a lot more should be changed.
Clearly they are designed to be as much protagonist as any other PC race. And their source material, being Tolkien, they're obviously designed to be protagonists. So how the race is not designed to be protagonists is completely beyond me.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Outright rejection - no. Deferral - maybe. But even if you think they're deferring the comforts of home and a beer for risk, that's no different from a dwarf deferring satisfying craft and artifice for the same. Yet, you seem to have a blind spot for that by singling out halflings.

Clearly they are designed to be as much protagonist as any other PC race. And their source material, being Tolkien, they're obviously designed to be protagonists. So how the race is not designed to be protagonists is completely beyond me.
Tolkien designed hobbits as a fish out of water. They were people not designed to adventure but adventuring due to special circumstances. That's their charm. Short little folk who would rather be home forced into danger because only they can do X.

That's great for a story or book series. But for me it's kinda stupid for a RPG playable core race. That to me is why I think many games pull a lot of the hobbitness out of their halflings (besides the lawsuit fear).That's why few people put up any resistances to old school type games making halflings weak.

I mean the default lore has them mooching off humans for protection.

Give me Eberron or Dark Sun or Nentir Vale halflings anyday.
 

Tolkien designed hobbits as a fish out of water. They were people not designed to adventure but adventuring due to special circumstances. That's their charm. Short little folk who would rather be home forced into danger because only they can do X.
This isn't entirely true. Bilbo wasn't forced, Bilbo choose to go on an adventure. This is because Tolkien has an entire subrace of Hobbits (Tooks) that do enjoy adventures. And the other Took, Pippin also chose to go on the adventure.

Given what we where saying about the British upper class earlier, it is perhaps not a coincidence that the Tooks are the closest things the Shire Hobbits have to royalty (the Thanes).
 




Chaosmancer

Legend
Well, for that, mostly, you can point the finger at the Tolkien estate. Since any D&D legit rendition of a Halfling, with hairy-topped feet, country gentleman, or even (probably) shadow-lurking rogue, is going to be seen (and potentially sued) as an infringement on the copyright and intellectual property.

Gnomes...eh, they get used sometimes. The D&D cartoon of the 80's, for example, used little, bearded, gnomish people (though I don't know if they were ever identified as gnomes, but they were definitely not the D&D -or even tolkien- imagination of dwarves. I don't think elves, even, ever had so much as an appearance in the cartoon. There was a sprite... once, I think). The aforementioned fantasy film classic, Willow, had a very gnomish portrayal of some of the "Pech" people. I think the Wizard of Oz's "Munchkins" always struck me as having a very gnomish feel to them (though at the time of the book's writing, or filming for that matter, D&D was some decades away). "Time Bandits," the Smurfs, the little folk in the film "Legend" had a very Gnome feel to them (I don't recall if they were ever identified as "dwarf" or "gnome" in the film). Various incarnations of Snow White (particularly those newer "Huntsmen" movies) have had very gnome-like renditions of the "Dwarf" characters, I think.

Have there been many RECENT media appearances by small folk in fantasy works? Have there been distinctly "D&D"or "Pathfinder" projects, 3-4-5e materials? No. None of that. Mostly because the fantasy oxygen of the past couple of decades was entirely consumed between LotR (and blech Hobbit trilogy) and Harry Potter. Then Hollywood fell into a Superhero-Comic Books black hole (not that I'm complaining. Love them!) That "Merlin" tv show was doing ok for a minute. Some other television or Netflix things that are more knights/kings/castles and battlefields -"Vikings," "Black Sails," "The Outlaw King," and the like, that either go for a "historic" type of fantasy from our actual Earth, or if in a fantasy world, as "real" a world as possible. So, there hasn't really been anything D&D or even "magic land/medieval medium to high-fantasy" for a while. "The Witcher," and "Game of Thrones" were probably the most D&Dish: one heavily uses "sorcery is real" and one was centered around dragons and undead. Apparently, there's something now call "Cursed" in Netflix that's doing pretty well (I'll have to check it out.), another retelling/reimagining/umpteenth version of Arthurian legend. Given it's Arthurian I wouldn't expect to see gnomes or halflings in there...but certain faerie folks, maybe. I have no idea how "sorcery/magic is a real thing" the series goes.

Long story long, it's all the Tolkien Estates' fault. ;)

See, this is why you need to look beyond big budget TV and Film.

Gnomes are a huge deal in Warcraft. They've shown up in quite a few smaller books and webcomics I've read. First ones to come to mind are "Guilded Age" and "Everybody Loves Large Chests" (no, the title doesn't reference that, it is about a mimic. It also is about a lot of other things, but it is hilarious anyways, because I like the dark and inappropriate humor)

They aren't as ubiquitous as Elves and Dwarves, but they are still very common.
 

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