D&D General Alternate "Ability Scores"

Aldarc · Feb 5, 2021

Reynard said:
Never say never?

I don't think there is much chance D&Ds six iconic ability scores will change in 6E or whatever comes next, for sure. But they should. They simultaneously say too much and not enough about the character. In 5E, with bounded accuracy, they are also far too important and have entirely too mech mechanical heft for too long.

Debating the "should" will likely not be resolved in this thread, even as someone sympathetic to the sentiment as I am. So if attributes say too much and too little then which side do you lean on? Do you want them to represent less or more? Because that could help brainstorm possible alternatives better. I have already proposed a few alternatives already, though I'm not sure what your thoughts are on those.

DND_Reborn · Feb 5, 2021

Charlaquin said:
Ugh. IQ is such an unreliable metric to begin with, the idea of assigning IQs based on Intelligence score seems in very poor taste to me.

Mostly, I agree, but there isn't anything else so....

Unless you are simply saying you feel any comparison of a game mechanic score to real people is in poor taste to you? Some people find it so, personally I have no issues with quantifying people's abilities/ features.

The only issue IMO is that each ability represents SO many different things! Going back to AD&D:

So, it is "similar to" but also includes other things. Even I.Q. tests recognize they can only measure certain aspects of intelligence, no single test is unified.

Anyway, for 5E I prefer to also think that your ability scores represent your ability to apply strength, intelligence, etc. (either activity or passively) to any task or need rather than some comparative score.

Reynard · Feb 5, 2021

6ENow! said:
Mostly, I agree, but there isn't anything else so....

Unless you are simply saying you feel any comparison of a game mechanic score to real people is in poor taste to you? Some people find it so, personally I have no issues with quantifying people's abilities/ features.

The only issue IMO is that each ability represents SO many different things! Going back to AD&D:
View attachment 132230

So, it is "similar to" but also includes other things. Even I.Q. tests recognize they can only measure certain aspects of intelligence, no single test is unified.

Anyway, for 5E I prefer to also think that your ability scores represent your ability to apply strength, intelligence, etc. (either activity or passively) to any task or need rather than some comparative score.

That's another argument for replacing them. It isn't your intelligence, it's you ability to use reason and knowledge and logic and sometimes math to solve a problem.

I like the approaches presented in FAE because it eliminates any of those measures and instead talks about what methods work for your character.

DND_Reborn · Feb 5, 2021

Reynard said:
That's another argument for replacing them. It isn't your intelligence, it's you ability to use reason and knowledge and logic and sometimes math to solve a problem.

Many would argue that is what "Intelligence" means...

Reynard said:
I like the approaches presented in FAE because it eliminates any of those measures and instead talks about what methods work for your character.

I am not very familiar with FATE. I looked at it once and it didn't appeal to me, personally.

"What method works" is fine in many cases, but other times you really have to use what's typical.

Charlaquin · Feb 5, 2021

6ENow! said:
Many would argue that is what "Intelligence" means...

Many would also argue it isn’t what IQ measures.

Paul Farquhar · Feb 5, 2021

Charlaquin said:
Many would also argue it isn’t what IQ measures.

IQ measures how good you are at doing IQ tests.

DND_Reborn · Feb 5, 2021

Charlaquin said:
Many would also argue it isn’t what IQ measures.

Paul Farquhar said:
IQ measures how good you are at doing IQ tests.

LOL, yeah, there is no point getting into a debate about all this.

Shadow Over Mystara · Feb 5, 2021

Raith5 said:
I am not of fan of ditching stats for skills. I think stats tell something about the PC (and the skills they would want to use). The thing for me is that the 6 stats of D&D no longer do a good job of identifying interesting things about PCs. They are also a bit of an ill fitting straightjacket with some things that dont make sense. For eg, I think the idea that wisdom informs perception is somewhat crazy.

I dont think that physical and mental stats are divided in an interesting way. Id be happy with combining STR and CON into a stat called Brawn and combing INT and WIS into a stat called Intellect or mind.

I like to see at stat that relates to coolness and determination, maybe called Resolve. I think resolve would be important to martial PCs as well divine types.

I also think that perception should be a separate stat that informs skills like awareness and investigation. I would say that perception is as important for rogue types as dexterity, for eg.

Great points. Strength, Dexterity, Intellect, Perception, Resolve, Charisma would work at least as well as the current six, and in my opinion even better. A high Perception character would be like Adrian Monk. A high Resolve character would not be easily influenced or intimidated.

Another idea I've tossed around, that has probably already made its way into some great RPGs, is not stacking ability score bonuses with anything else. They could instead just set the baseline, so lower-level characters might be more defined by their raw natural ability, but as characters gather experience, their skills and other improvements eventually overtake many or most of their ability scores in importance.

DND_Reborn · Feb 5, 2021

Charlaquin said:
Many would also argue it isn’t what IQ measures.

FWIW, my response was talking about "Intelligence" in terms of the game mechanic.

For example, in 5E:

Which to the point I was addressing:

Reynard said:
ability to use reason and knowledge and logic

Krachek · Feb 5, 2021

Charlaquin said:
Many would also argue it isn’t what IQ measures.

IQ test mesure IQ, said the creator of the test!

D&D General Alternate "Ability Scores"

Aldarc

Legend

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin

Reynard

Legend

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

Paul Farquhar

Legend

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin

Shadow Over Mystara

Explorer

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin

Krachek

Hero

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