I completely understand now - my apologies for not reading carefully enough.
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D&D 5E The Mainstreaming of D&D
- Thread starter Reynard
- Start date
Because it's hard for many folks to find players and groups for many games.
Bolares
Hero
this sounds soooo gatekeepy to me...
toucanbuzz
No rule is inviolate
I chalk it up to nostalgia for what it felt like when I started around age 10 and what it feels like now. It was something the cool kids didn't play, that my grandmother disapproved of, that my mother (still) thought was a kid's game that I'd grow out of 30+ years later. It was something buried in the back of the Waldenbooks at the mall rather than front and center. I get that it can feel like perhaps the game has been hijacked by "pseudo-nerds" who maybe don't get that for a lot of gamers, it was and is a way to break through the social ice, express one's self, and be part of something special.
It's perhaps the same feel when we saw the grimy, dingy, gaming store go under that was run by the heavyset guy who didn't bathe but had full knowledge of everything Magic the Gathering and while loving the games had no business sense. The store was replaced by a well-lit, spacious Gaming Store with not only our treasured RPGs, but every vanilla board game as well, and you'd see well dressed families with strollers and even school class field trips on weekends as rewards for a job well done by spending an afternoon playing D&D. Sure, it's good to see the business doing well and new players in the fold, but for some, there was a loss of being part of something for only you.
Still, I can't lament long. D&D has come a long way from art of naked tied up women and naked succubus art inspired by 1970s Playboy magazines, chain mail bikinis, female characters capped at 17 STR, cultural and racial stereotypes, and so on. It's more inclusive, and that's opened doors to me finding more gamers. I moved a couple years back and instantly found gamers who like my style of more "old school:" grittier, darker, riskier. That wouldn't have easily happened 20 years ago (and didn't!)
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I get it. It’s the hipster experience. You liked a thing when it was niche and weird, then it got popular and the vibe changed to appeal to its new, broader audience. You’re glad more people appreciate it now, but you miss the vibes it had when it was niche and weird.
Ralif Redhammer
Legend
There's an interview with Rozz Williams, who was one of the least mainstream musicians out there, where he talks about how he refused to listen to Nirvana, because "they were too popular, like Star Wars." Then when Pat Smear of The Germs joined he gave them a listen and thought they were great.
In hindsight, it's also hard to imagine a band as heavy and at times ugly-sounding as Nirvana being as popular as they were then in today's music environment. Smells Like Teen Spirit has some serious crunch, and In Utero is an abrasive masterwork.
But back to the subject at hand, while I cherish my old memories of playing D&D back in the day, it's easy to gloss over the bad stuff about it being more Kvlt (and debatably, it had stopped being Kvlt by the time I even discovered it, despite the Satanic Panic still being in full swing). It's easy to forget about being stuck with terrible DMs that made up stuff for sole purpose of feeling superior to their players, players that would try to kill other characters to get at the magic items they had, about never even knowing that this or that awesome product existed because there was no way to find out if it wasn't on a shelf in a store or had an ad in Dragon magazine.
It's okay to love both the past and the present. There's space for the kid in me that still re-reads the original Dragonlance trilogy, adores the atmosphere-setting black and white art of the original DMG, and the adult that loves it every time we see a tiefling knitting a scarf, cartoony art, and more inclusivity in the game.
Even if D&D feels more mainstream, it's also brought out a ton of creators that are doing their own thing and making D&D even cooler.
But there's one thing I can kvetch about with the mainstreaming of D&D, and that's how much the prices on used older products has jumped.
In hindsight, it's also hard to imagine a band as heavy and at times ugly-sounding as Nirvana being as popular as they were then in today's music environment. Smells Like Teen Spirit has some serious crunch, and In Utero is an abrasive masterwork.
So D&D was cool before it went lamestream like your favorite band?
But back to the subject at hand, while I cherish my old memories of playing D&D back in the day, it's easy to gloss over the bad stuff about it being more Kvlt (and debatably, it had stopped being Kvlt by the time I even discovered it, despite the Satanic Panic still being in full swing). It's easy to forget about being stuck with terrible DMs that made up stuff for sole purpose of feeling superior to their players, players that would try to kill other characters to get at the magic items they had, about never even knowing that this or that awesome product existed because there was no way to find out if it wasn't on a shelf in a store or had an ad in Dragon magazine.
It's okay to love both the past and the present. There's space for the kid in me that still re-reads the original Dragonlance trilogy, adores the atmosphere-setting black and white art of the original DMG, and the adult that loves it every time we see a tiefling knitting a scarf, cartoony art, and more inclusivity in the game.
Even if D&D feels more mainstream, it's also brought out a ton of creators that are doing their own thing and making D&D even cooler.
But there's one thing I can kvetch about with the mainstreaming of D&D, and that's how much the prices on used older products has jumped.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
I may roll my eyes sometimes at the number of people who pontificate about the coolness of tieflings while saying that halflings are boring, but mainstreaming is great the the hobby. I'm running two 5e games loaded with teens and early 20-somethings that have different perspectives from mine and it's fun! It's energizing.
And as far as conventions go, there's nothing more of a drag than going to a convention full of all the same people and slowly dying off as the attendees die off. But the conventions that track young with lots of teens and 20s? Those are vibrant and make me feel young again.
So give me more of this mainstreaming.
And as far as conventions go, there's nothing more of a drag than going to a convention full of all the same people and slowly dying off as the attendees die off. But the conventions that track young with lots of teens and 20s? Those are vibrant and make me feel young again.
So give me more of this mainstreaming.
Why? I am only talking about my preferences and my feelings about certain aesthetics. We don't have to like the same things. I can prefer blood and mud and you can prefer whatever it is you prefer and we can still both like D&D.
Professor Murder
Hero
When something is small and niche, the people who are into it will develop affection for the rough edges. I don't think that's bad in and of itself. I don't see an argument here against the changes per say, more that the insular ownership of the experience of RPGs is going away. But on the other hand, it comes off like people missing dirty NYC of the 70s with porno theatres in Times Square. It's a feeling that never stands up to honest introspection.
I actually worry about a couple of the conventions I attend that seem to be getting grayer and fatter every year along with me, without a lot of new blood coming in.
