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D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap
- Thread starter overgeeked
- Start date
Right, it would be weird if a wizard fought with a weapon.
I thought we decided he was a Bard?
Vaalingrade
Legend
That's a Solar. They have the weapon right in their stat block.Right, it would be weird if a wizard fought with a weapon.
Neonchameleon
Legend
Low magic world. Gandalf was a fifth level wizard in oD&D. I'd suspect bard or arcane trickster to be honest.Right, it would be weird if a wizard fought with a weapon.
W'rkncacnter
Hero
well that part's easy. just play an elf.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Sufferable. As in the opposite of insufferable, which makes it the opposite of elf.
Tony Vargas
Legend
...and shooting...
3e Shot on the Run Feat (which has several preqs) and high DC Accrobatics. 4e Evasive Strike Ranger encounter exploit + Elf's Wild Step Trait.
5e "DM, may I surf down the stone staircase on a shield while shooting an orc with my bow?"
3e Improvised weapon attack with an arrow, likely to miss, or do insufficient damage, and/or break, followed by either another one, or taking the shot with the first orc still alive, and provoking an AoO; 4e Stab & Shoot, Ranger encounter exploit.
5e Improvised weapon attack with an arrow, likely to miss, or do insufficient damage, followed by either another one, or taking the shot with the first orc still alive, with Disadvantage for the adjacent enemy. Also, even if you kill the first orc, it gets a dying attack against you.
3e. Penetrating Shot feat. 4e: Split the Tree, Ranger daily exploit
5e Piercing Arrow, Arcane Archer short-rest-recharge class feature that shoots an ethereal arrow through cover.
3e Multiple high-DC Climb and acrobatics checks, shot technically provokes from the monsters. 4e Close Quarters, Rogue daily utility (Legolas, you naughty MC-feat taking boy) + Close Quarters Shot, Ranger encounter
5e "DM, may I climb up the monster while shooting the orcs riding it with my bow?"
...and killing it in one shot, mind you.
TSR-3e: I never thought I'd get to use this Arrow of Elephant Slaying 4e: who knew it was a minion? (Gimli did,"it only counts as one!")
5e: +6d10 for an arrow of elephant slaying'll do it, right?
What? Oh, not insufferable.
Not possible in any system. 4e: "But Tony, its the Eladrin who are insufferable." Eladrin are just High Elves, 4e, you're not fooling anyone.
TBF, the above is humorous, but it's interesting how 1e sneaked a bunch of stuff from LotR, like the spells Gandalf cast and his Staff pre- & post Balrog (type VI demon), and glowing magic swords and the Crystal Hypnosis Ball ('palantir' sounded a lot cooler), while 4e snuck Legolas stunts from the LotR movies into the Ranger - like, transparently. "Stab & Shoot?" c'mon....
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W'rkncacnter
Hero
ah, i misread. my bad.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
I'm not sold on the idea that "Fighter" and "Wizard" are playstyles. You can play either class in a wide variety of ways.
They're archetypes. Narratives. Paths that you choose as a player before you even know what that path can lead to in the game (and, not coincidentally, "Fighter" is a much more incoherent narrative in D&D than "Wizard" is...there's a reason one used to be Magic User but changed, and one is still Fighter.)
And when one dude is telling a story about a gritty war and the other dude is telling a story about a plane-spanning wonder-worker, well these aren't compatible narratives. It's like Harry Potter showing up alongside Gandalf or Conan walking through the house from Hansel and Gretel. They're just not working within the same assumptions.
So, don't define the narratives as something players can choose independently. Define the narratives that you are willing to tell with the adventure you're running. In something like the Shattered Obelisk, maybe there are psychically powered aberration hunters. In a dragon-themed campaign, brave dragon-slayers. Don't define your story without the rest of the group!
I said that I'd nuke the idea of class, but it's probably more accurate to say I'd nuke the idea of choosing a class. Play your character. If you want to be a wizard, take wizard-y actions. Don't assume you'll be able to cast wish someday. Choose what you would do to be a wizard right now.
The difference between a fighter and a wizard is much more in the metagame than in the class features, and if you want them to feel closer to each other in power, spell slots and martial dailies only get you so far. What really gets you there is being on the same page about the kind of story you're telling.
