D&D 5E How would YOU nerf the wizard? +

[TwoSix]

Not a slot machine. More like a skill roll with consequences for failure.

There's a gradient. You can have "Make a DC 10 check or your spell fizzles" all the way up to "Roll on the d10000 wild surge table everytime you try a spell".

 

[Gammadoodler]

it's still a slot machine if you rely on d20 on what are you going to get.

What if it was a d2..or a d10.. a d100.. maybe a d1000?

Because it seems like people want to skip past any specific implementation discussion to get to the conclusion that any risk of failure at all (with or without consequences) turns spellcasting into a "slot machine".

Like, this could be a skill roll, where you get advantage, have expertise, and has a low enough DC that you succeed on anything but a 1. Choose a halfling and you fail like once every 8000 rolls. Is that still a slot machine, where you biff a spell like once a year.

Or it could be implemented some other way where failure is far more or way less likely.

 

[Voadam]

The whole most recent Spiderman movie is predicated on Dr. Strange botching a spell and ripping holes (plural) in the multiverse.

Edit: And he wasn't even in combat..just in close proximity to a chatty teenager.

Sure. It was based on Spider Man interrupting him repeatedly while he was actively casting his reality reshaping scale magic.

Most just work unless they are interrupted while casting.

Doctor Strange and the other sorcerers though never fail to make a ring portal other than Strange as an apprentice before he has finished learning how to do his magic that I remember.

 

[Micah Sweet]

it's still a slot machine if you rely on d20 on what are you going to get.

Then everything that isn't a spell is a slot machine.

 

[Gammadoodler]

It was based on Spider Man interrupting him repeatedly while he was actively casting his reality reshaping scale magic.


Doctor Strange and the other sorcerers never fail to make a ring portal other than Strange as an apprentice before he has finished learning how to do his magic.

He botched the spell because he couldn't maintain his concentration while someone was talking to him. You call it an interrupt, I call it a skill roll made at disadvantage (or maybe just a bad skill roll).

Either way, he messed up the spell and it had consequences.

And just generally, he's had to practice magic to get good at it, which suggests that there is a skill component to doing it.

The whole Harry Potter mythology is based on the idea that magic-capable people need a special school to be taught how to do magic safely and effectively. Magic in that series fails often and spectacularly.

You can also look at most any work involving any kind of witchcraft. The botched magic ritual with unintended consequences is so common it's a trope.

 

[Micah Sweet]

He botched the spell because he couldn't maintain his concentration while someone was talking to him. You call it an interrupt, I call it a skill roll made at disadvantage (or maybe just a bad skill roll).

Either way, he messed up the spell and it had consequences.

And just generally, he's had to practice magic to get good at it, which suggests that there is a skill component to doing it.

The whole Harry Potter mythology is based on the idea that magic-capable people need to be taught how to do magic. Magic fails often and spectacularly.

You can also look at most any work involving any kind of witchcraft. The botched magic ritual with unintended consequences is so common it's a trope.

Harry Potter has many instances of mistakes while spellcasting.

 

[Voadam]

Then everything that isn't a spell is a slot machine.

Movement.

Activating magic items.

Using class powers (second wind, lay on hands, wildshape, uncanny dodge, etc.).

Making an attack (as opposed to hitting).

 

[Micah Sweet]

Movement.

Activating magic items.

Using class powers (second wind, lay on hands, wildshape, uncanny dodge, etc.).

Making an attack (as opposed to hitting).

Do you mean deciding to attack? I guess deciding to cast a spell isn't a slot machine under this idea either.

 

[Voadam]

Do you mean deciding to attack? I guess deciding to cast a spell isn't a slot machine under this idea either.

Attacking with a bow you always shoot an arrow but roll to see if the arrow hits.

That is equivalent to casting eldritch blast in which an eldritch blast is always shot but rolling to hit with it.

Slot machine spells would be rolling to cast the eldritch blast spell at all, then if successful rolling to see if it hits.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Thinking about it a little more, I would be wary of combining "methodologies/play types" onto exact fictional elements. A player might hate randomness but also hate playing divine tropes, or any type of cleric/divine character.

I think there's three broad types of magic "play types" that should be supported.

Simple (little-to-no resource management, a few broad tricks)

This is where warlock already mostly fits; you blast stuff. You might miss, but you can always blast. The fact that it's a granted power (and the granting entity could be anything) makes this make sense.

Complex-reliable (magic just goes off, resource regulated, classic D&D)

Works for most casters.

Complex-random (skill checks, unforeseen consequences, "wild magic", DCC would be the exemplar here)

This is what I'd do to make the sorcerer stand out more - it already lacks a bit of identity.

I have argued against more randomness for all casters, but building a class around random-ish magic could work. You'd want to avoid having them screw over the whole party, though.

Ideally, each of the "flavors" of magic (arcane, divine, primal/druidic, psionic, occult/warlock, song/bard) would have the capability to support all 3 "play types", so that a player could play a simple "druid" or a wild surging bard if they desire.

The only thing I think you'd need to take from the sorcerer and give to other classes is dragon magic, but you can never have too much dragon in Dungeons & Dragons.