D&D General Forgotten Realms: Real World Gods Still Present in the Old Empires

Henadic Theologian · Friday at 4:50 PM

Zeromaru X said:
Or we can assume they destroyed it for good, or sent it to Abeir (alongside the lake), etc... Given time, I can even came up with a fix that I actually like. The point is, however, that I'm aware of the reason why they didn't include it in the map (most likely because, as you say, there was scarcely anything about the city and they either didn't knew it existed or actively decided to remove it). And that for me, is what doesn't allow me to enjoy this: I'm pretty aware of the truth. At least, not for now. Perhaps, over time I can get over this.

Enlil is a jobber. He was so weak by the end of the novels, I don't think he had the power to pull that one. Nanna-Sin was not even a god by the end of the novels, just an immortal dragon turtle. And Selûne... may be she do has the power for this, but she never cared for the dragonborn. She just saved them by accident and left them to their own devices as soon as she did what she had to do in the area.

Again, knowing the lore is what makes me unable to enjoy the easy fixes people is coming up with, because I have an idea of the Doylist explanation for things. I need time to process this, and came over with fixes I like and consider logical and lore compliant.

Enlil managed to block the Sundering from teleporting two big Dragonborn cities to Abier. That is not nothing given that he had no time to build his power back up to were it was in ancient times. He's had at least decade to rebuild his worship in places like Chessenta, Messemprar, Dragonborn city states, etc..., restoring a measure of his power plus. Asmodeus protects the Dragonborn cities because his pissed Gilgeam makes deals with Grazzt, the civil war in Tymanther/Unther has become an extension of the Blood War.

And Selune is no slouch either

Yaarel · Friday at 4:58 PM

Henadic Theologian said:
Enlil managed to block the Sundering from teleporting two big Dragonborn cities to Abier. That is not nothing given that he had no time to build his power back up to were it was in ancient times. He's had at least decade to rebuild his worship in places like Chessenta, Messemprar, Dragonborn city states, etc..., restoring a measure of his power plus. Asmodeus protects the Dragonborn cities because his pissed Gilgeam makes deals with Grazzt, the civil war in Tymanther/Unther has become an extension of the Blood War.

And Selune is no slouch either

Per the 2024 Forgotten Realms books. The fact that the city Djerad Thymar survives suggests Enlil still has an avatar ruling there. But the lack of mentioning him calls his existence there into question. The current status of Enlil is uncertain.

Also the devilization of Dragonborn culture seems problematic for Dragonborn fans. The reallife Sumeria slightly avoids demonization, because at least part of it is free from it.

Zeromaru X · Saturday at 12:43 AM

Henadic Theologian said:
Enlil managed to block the Sundering from teleporting two big Dragonborn cities to Abier

Actually, Enlil only managed to protect one, Djerad Thymar, and he barely managed to do it. However, I think that he may have been ignored by the new writers team, as he was mentioned in novels and not in any sourcebook. There are already other section of the book that also ignored developments from novels (the King of Damara is still the same one from 4e, despite the fact he was killed by Jarlaxe in one of the recent Drizzt's novels).

The second dragonborn city may have been ignored because of that, too.

Henadic Theologian said:
Asmodeus protects the Dragonborn cities because

I don't think Asmodeus really cares for that. He only help that time because it was convenient for him, not because he had animosity against Gilgeam.

Henadic Theologian said:
And Selune is no slouch either

Sure, she is powerful. But she doesn't care about the dragonborn either. Her only help was accidental, and once she helped them she never cared to even sent clerics or something. The only god who actually cared for the dragonborn was Bahamut, and he got downplayed in the novels because reasons.

Epic Meepo · Saturday at 6:57 PM

Zeromaru X said:
Enlil is a jobber. He was so weak by the end of the novels, I don't think he had the power to pull that one.

Enlil doesn't have to be powerful on Toril to restore sovereignty to Tymanther. Enlil is Gilgeam's superior in the Untheric pantheon (per Powers & Pantheons, page 102), which transcends any one mortal world. All Enlil has to do is pull rank.

Zeromaru X · Saturday at 7:51 PM

Epic Meepo said:
Enlil doesn't have to be powerful on Toril to restore sovereignty to Tymanther. Enlil is Gilgeam's superior in the Untheric pantheon (per Powers & Pantheons, page 102), which transcends any one mortal world. All Enlil has to do is pull rank.

Given that 99% of Tymanther got wiped out, I don't think Gilgeam cares about rank...

Yaarel · 2025-11-02T18:43:48+0000

Zeromaru X said:
Actually, Enlil only managed to protect one, Djerad Thymar, and he barely managed to do it. However, I think that he may have been ignored by the new writers team, as he was mentioned in novels and not in any sourcebook. There are already other section of the book that also ignored developments from novels (the King of Damara is still the same one from 4e, despite the fact he was killed by Jarlaxe in one of the recent Drizzt's novels).

The second dragonborn city may have been ignored because of that, too.

I don't think Asmodeus really cares for that. He only help that time because it was convenient for him, not because he had animosity against Gilgeam.

Sure, she is powerful. But she doesn't care about the dragonborn either. Her only help was accidental, and once she helped them she never cared to even sent clerics or something. The only god who actually cared for the dragonborn was Bahamut, and he got downplayed in the novels because reasons.

The Forgotten Realms Dragonborn culture is probably better off going godless. Enlil manifested a Dragonborn avatar but that might be temporary for some tactical reason.

The relationship is similar to Elves. A Celestial is literally the parent and enjoys family dignity. But there is no reason to assume a religious worship on top of this.

For the Dragonborn, any and all Dragons are parents, including Bahamut, Tiamat, and the Ruby Dragon, along with any other Dragons. But they dont need to worship their parents.

The Tymanther Dragonborn have a stronghold, Djerad. This city-state might be a sizable territory, such as 16x30 miles across, with a population of thousands or millions. Meanwhile other Dragonborn elsewhere will be part of other cultures.

Zeromaru X · 2025-11-02T23:22:24+0000

Yaarel said:
The Tymanther Dragonborn have a stronghold, Djerad. This city-state might be a sizable territory, such as 16x30 miles across, with a population of thousands or millions. Meanwhile other Dragonborn elsewhere will be part of other cultures.

The population of the city was just 30 thousands, per the 4e sourcebooks. The population makes sense as the current Thymari dragonborn are the descendants of the survivors of the Spellplague, that was a small group to begin with. It was expanded to 50 thousands in the novels, but something tells me the novels were ignored. Just a guess.

A few more thousands in the nearby villages (no more than one thousand per village, if we go by the description of Ruinspoke), and no data for the second city created for 5e, that doesn't matter anymore because this book doesn't even have ruins of it on the map. The place just vanished without a trace.

Subtract from that number the casualties of the war, and the Thymari dragonborn are almost extinct (you don't undo a country without wiping out most of its population). Someone here mentioned that "WotC won't do racial extermination", but they basically did so, just omitting saying it explicitly.

Yaarel · 2025-11-02T23:34:53+0000

Zeromaru X said:
The population of the city was just 30 thousands, per the 4e sourcebooks. The population makes sense as the current Thymari dragonborn are the descendants of the survivors of the Spellplague, that was a small group to begin with. It was expanded to 50 thousands in the novels, but something tells me the novels were ignored. Just a guess.

A few more thousands in the nearby villages (no more than one thousand per village, if we go by the description of Ruinspoke), and no data for the second city created for 5e, that doesn't matter anymore because this book doesn't even have ruins of it on the map. The place just vanished without a trace.

Subtract from that number the casualties of the war, and the Thymari dragonborn are almost extinct (you don't undo a country without wiping out most of its population). Someone here mentioned that "WotC won't do racial extermination", but they basically did so, just omitting saying it explicitly.

Ok, if that is the case then it makes sense that most of the Dragonborn of Tymanther fled to the city of Djerad as refugees. (Some remained and some fled to other lands.) Moreorless the entire population of the Dragonborn of all of Thymanther are now building new suburbs around the old city of Djerad.

Necessarily Djerad must have advanced magical capabilities to defend itself against the Unther onslaught.

D&D General Forgotten Realms: Real World Gods Still Present in the Old Empires

Henadic Theologian

Legend

Yaarel

🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage

Zeromaru X

Arkhosian scholar and coffee lover

Epic Meepo

Hero

Zeromaru X

Arkhosian scholar and coffee lover

Yaarel

🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage

Zeromaru X

Arkhosian scholar and coffee lover

Yaarel

🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage

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