Ralif Redhammer
Legend
I think the case could be made that every time D&D has tried to go above 20th level, it's had diminishing returns.
TSR On the Relative Merits of the TSR Editions
- Thread starter DammitVictor
- Start date
Sacrosanct
Legend
I would argue any time you go above level 10
cbwjm
Legend
I love the BECMI rules cyclopedia, it's how I first learned how to play DnD and the fact that it's the whole game in one book is awesome (I guess you could say it was missing the immortal rules, but I guess I consider them an add-on rather than a core part of the game).
2e was the second edition of DnD I played, I loved that because of how it expanded DnD for me, race separate from class? That's so crazy it just might work! I loved the settings and the add-ons to that edition.
Something that I loved about both of these editions, is that they were so easy to mod. For instance, planescape has factions and these were just abilities tacked on to a character.
2e was the second edition of DnD I played, I loved that because of how it expanded DnD for me, race separate from class? That's so crazy it just might work! I loved the settings and the add-ons to that edition.
Something that I loved about both of these editions, is that they were so easy to mod. For instance, planescape has factions and these were just abilities tacked on to a character.
Ralif Redhammer
Legend
No arguments on that from me, either! In all the years I've run D&D, I can say that my enjoyment has often slid in direct proportion to how far past 10th level the PCs have gotten.I would argue any time you go above level 10
Spellslinging Sellsword
Adventurer
Mentzer Basic and Expert are how I learned to play D&D. I was in a small rural town and didn't know anyone who played so I had to teach myself the game and I thought that the Basic and Expert set explained things clearly and were easy to follow. GM'd my sisters and friends to begin this decades long hobby. The Rules Cyclopedia is a great single volume rendition of D&D.
AD&D 2E was the game I migrated to and played the most out of the TSR era editions. The 3 core books are a solid foundation for running the game and much better written and edited than 1st edition. The Monstrous Manual is a great creatures book.
I've played/ran OD&D and B/X since those early years and both are fairly easy to modify and home brew.
I've used stuff from AD&D 1E and have read the three core books, but I can't remember running a pure 1E game or playing in one.
AD&D 2E was the game I migrated to and played the most out of the TSR era editions. The 3 core books are a solid foundation for running the game and much better written and edited than 1st edition. The Monstrous Manual is a great creatures book.
I've played/ran OD&D and B/X since those early years and both are fairly easy to modify and home brew.
I've used stuff from AD&D 1E and have read the three core books, but I can't remember running a pure 1E game or playing in one.
I never got to play Moldvay/Cook or Mentzer. My introduction to BECMI was the Rules Cyclopedia, which I bought and used (along with The Orcs of Thar) before I fully understoof that 1E and 2E weren't exactly the game game, and that AD&D was different from D&D.
My highest level legit AD&D character wwasa multiclassed Troll/Assassin/Shaman. He didn't so much die as cease to exist alongside Vecna at the end of Die, Vecna, Die, because the DM allowed us to beat one of the Biggest Bads of D&D of D&D history with a schoolyard prank... but not without extracting his pound of flesh.
The other two PCs were a Klingon Jedi with a lightsabre-bat'leth and a human Fighter who mastered the smallsword.
Problem is, there's two kinds of Kits: there'a what PF1 calls Archetypes and whay 5E calls Backgrounds. Both of them should exist, but they shouldn't occupy the same design space.
I switched over to 3.0 and 3.5 immediately, and they were my preferred game from 1999 to about 2006 or so-- got a sweetheart deal to do second-party work for ICE so I switched to HARP and Rolemaster SS/FRP until that sweetheart deal broke my heart.
I slept on 4E when it came out-- I don't play single-class characters and the PHB1 rules just didn't count. Still a bunch of things that bug me about the rules, but I feel like I missed out by not playing it when it was in print.
I have a lot of great PF1 sourcebooks published by WotC before the Paizo published the core rulebook, but 4E is hands-down my favorite WotC edition.
Slept on 5E for a couple of years, too, but I picked it up eventually. Ran a campaign for almost a year and a half. More than a fair shot, but by the end of that campaign I was angrier about 5E than I'd been aboutn game since Gamma World d20. Used to say 5E was my absolute least favorite, but then the 3PP ecosystem started getting better and the OSR convinced me to stop taking being "fan-fired" personally.
Still not fond of 5E as a system, but at least I feel like EN Publishing and Skydawn Game Studios want me to like it.
I'm in a very weird place with that. My first gaming group-- step-family-- played 1E (I started in 1993) and they more or less just rolled with whatever Classic/2E books I bought. I didn't really "play 2E" until the groups I played with in high school didn't allow the other rules.
Want I want from the OSR is a lot like the playstyle of those early games-- only with adults I'd trust to play with children-- but the OSR community and especially the 1E fandom.remember 80s D&D a lot differently than I do.
Pretty much the same. Its not D&D without psionic half-orc monks. I do a lot of weird mix-and-matching. Use most of the OA classes, but rename them; turn a bunch of Kits into classes.
Between this and the "innovations" thread, I am getting ideas.
I never owned the orange spines, but the black borders seemed to have higher page counts. I don't remember the custom class rules being in the original 2E DMG.
But when I say "black border" I'm including Player's Option, Tome of Magic, and High Level Campaigns. (It's fun going through HLC and keeping track of which 11th+ level powers became 1st level powers in 3.0n which became 21st level powers.)
It absolutely is, but "Player's Option" is a vicious misnomer. Those are DM tools; they're the Unearthed Arcana (1E) and Unearthed Arcana (3.5) in a three volume set.
You should definitely let your players play with some of it, but you should curate the hell out of what you let them play it. It's not about powergaming; I trust my players. Uncurated 2.5 will break your game in perfect good faith the same way trying run all all of UA3.5 all at once will.
And like every version of UA, some parts of it just are not good.
Frank Mentzer is a living.legend who had his thumb in some of the greatest moments in D&D history. He paid his dues when we were in short pants.
I'd say he has well earned the privilege of being wrong.
I feel like I'm the same way. I'm not fond of 1E, but 2E isn't whole without a bunch of 1E material. I vastly prefer Official PF1 and the 3PP PF1 ecosystem, but PF1 doesn't feel right without a bunch of WotC and 3PP stuff.
Including, ironically, UA and OA.
Reynard
aka Ian Eller
The great weakness of the RC is that it dispenses with the teaching tools.
cbwjm
Legend
I believe the higher page count was due to layout changes, otherwise the core books were the same content (with some small amount of errata). The custom class rules were definitely in the original 2e book, I remember making classes with it back in the 90s.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
I grew up with B/X and 1E ... like many back then, we really ran a blend of the two. So that's really my vote: AB/X.
If I could only pick one, now, it would probably be B/X (which, functionally, isn't really different than BECMI). 2E I found too sanitized even thuogh it's mechanically far cleaner than 1E and does have that fantastic history of outstanding campaign settings.
If I could only pick one, now, it would probably be B/X (which, functionally, isn't really different than BECMI). 2E I found too sanitized even thuogh it's mechanically far cleaner than 1E and does have that fantastic history of outstanding campaign settings.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Fortunately I also have the Red Box books.
