TSR Why would anyone want to play 1e?

[cbwjm]

In the 1E MM ordinary humans had ½ HD or 1-4 hp, just like kobolds, and I too wondered how humans survived on the Prime Material Planes of D&D, let alone dominated them. The 2E MM boosted ordinary 0-level humans to 1 HD (1d8), but did not boost the HD of the demi-humans and humanoids, so a 2E human peasant had exactly the same HD as a standard orc. This made a lot more sense to me in world building terms, but I don’t know how many people actually noticed this then or now.

That's not quite right, humans did have more hp in 2e, but most had 1-6 instead of a full d8 hit die. They had something like a dozen humans to cover a few cases so some had more than a d6 hit die. So they were still weaker than an orc, but on par with a goblin.

 

[mixmastashizz]

That's not quite right, humans did have more hp in 2e, but most had 1-6 instead of a full d8 hit die. They had something like a dozen humans to cover a few cases so some had more than a d6 hit die. So they were still weaker than an orc, but on par with a goblin.

Not to mention the rank structures of bandits, mercenaries, and soliders following the fighter tables in 1e.

The average 0 level mercenary gets 1d4+3 hp, so less than a full HD but skews higher than even your average goblin

 

[Voadam]

1e MM Men entry page 66: "Normal men have from 1-6 hit points each."

There are non-normal men with different HD entries on page 67: bersekers have 2-7 hp, cavemen have 2 normal d8 HD, and tribesmen have 1 normal d8 HD.

1e DMG page 30: "Note that regular soldiers are 0 level men-at-arms with 4-7 hit points each."

And then 1e DMG page 74 "*Note: Half-elves use the attack matrix as elves do, while non-player character half-orcs use the attack matrix for monsters. Dwarves, elves and gnomes are never lower than 1st level (unlike halflings and humans, which may be of 0 level). Bards fight at their highest level of fighter experience."

This is one of the places where 1e humans are exceptional, but exceptionally weak compared to most others.

Base humanity is weak and super vulnerable but its power comes through classes and strong individuals.

 

[GreyLord]

1e MM Men entry page 66: "Normal men have from 1-6 hit points each."

There are non-normal men with different HD entries on page 67: bersekers have 2-7 hp, cavemen have 2 normal d8 HD, and tribesmen have 1 normal d8 HD.

1e DMG page 30: "Note that regular soldiers are 0 level men-at-arms with 4-7 hit points each."

And then 1e DMG page 74 "*Note: Half-elves use the attack matrix as elves do, while non-player character half-orcs use the attack matrix for monsters. Dwarves, elves and gnomes are never lower than 1st level (unlike halflings and humans, which may be of 0 level). Bards fight at their highest level of fighter experience."

This is one of the places where 1e humans are exceptional, but exceptionally weak compared to most others.

Base humanity is weak and super vulnerable but its power comes through classes and strong individuals.

Also, sort of like today in our lives.

A normal person is not going to go toe to toe with a Bear (or perhaps even an angry horse that cannot be calmed). Even a spear in hand will probably have that fight go somewhat badly for the human.

Human's are successful (even with primitive weapons like spears) because they work in groups and work together with tactics and strategy. It's not just one human vs. that Bear coming into their village, it's a dozen or more humans verses that bear...all armed with bows and then with spears if that doesn't take it down.

Sometimes the bear wins, but in the larger groups, normally humans can win.

Of course, this doesn't work as well against Orcs, goblins, or others who also congregate in large groups. These are fantasy groups of course. The only advantage humans have is higher numbers in this case...and of course...Heroes (and that's where the PC's come into play).

We have one other advantage today that gives us a better hand up than they did in primitive times. Technology. Technology is a game changer.

Mankind's biggest weapon isn't ability scores, hitpoints, or class levels todays...but our brains which help us overcome enemies, animals and the environment.

 

[James Gasik]

x

Also, sort of like today in our lives.

A normal person is not going to go toe to toe with a Bear (or perhaps even an angry horse that cannot be calmed). Even a spear in hand will probably have that fight go somewhat badly for the human.

Human's are successful (even with primitive weapons like spears) because they work in groups and work together with tactics and strategy. It's not just one human vs. that Bear coming into their village, it's a dozen or more humans verses that bear...all armed with bows and then with spears if that doesn't take it down.

Sometimes the bear wins, but in the larger groups, normally humans can win.

Of course, this doesn't work as well against Orcs, goblins, or others who also congregate in large groups. These are fantasy groups of course. The only advantage humans have is higher numbers in this case...and of course...Heroes (and that's where the PC's come into play).

We have one other advantage today that gives us a better hand up than they did in primitive times. Technology. Technology is a game changer.

Mankind's biggest weapon isn't ability scores, hitpoints, or class levels todays...but our brains which help us overcome enemies, animals and the environment.

So what's going on in D&D worlds, where all humanoid races have brains with which to overcome these things, yet somehow, many of them are human-centric?

 

[GreyLord]

x

So what's going on in D&D worlds, where all humanoid races have brains with which to overcome these things, yet somehow, many of them are human-centric?

Hard to say, but probably Humanity outbreeds everything else. Sort of like Rabbits. Doesn't matter how many you kill, they always come back.

At least that's a big problem Elves have had in many of the humanocentric fantasy worlds. The biggest competitors sometimes seem to be either goblins, orcs, or some other humanoid while the other races just can't keep up.

Sometimes it's also that while some of the humanoid races have brains, they just aren't as smart as humans...at least pre-3.X edition. They just aren't "smart" enough to keep up.

Or, it sometimes is a combination of those two.

 

[Flying Toaster]

That's not quite right, humans did have more hp in 2e, but most had 1-6 instead of a full d8 hit die. They had something like a dozen humans to cover a few cases so some had more than a d6 hit die. So they were still weaker than an orc, but on par with a goblin.

Huh... I could have sworn it was just a standard d8 HD for normal 2E humans. Maybe there were different stat blocks for different types: d8 for bandits & brigands, soldiers, etc, and d6 for civilians. I was going on memory from years ago.

Still, d6 is a bit better than the d4 of 1E. In my mind that always called into question how 1E humans managed to dominate the Prime Material Plane the way EGG wanted them to.

 

[Voadam]

Huh... I could have sworn it was just a standard d8 HD for normal 2E humans. Maybe there were different stat blocks for different types: d8 for bandits & brigands, soldiers, etc, and d6 for civilians. I was going on memory from years ago.

Still, d6 is a bit better than the d4 of 1E. In my mind that always called into question how 1E humans managed to dominate the Prime Material Plane the way EGG wanted them to.

Can you say where a 1e 1d4 is stated? The MM says d6, and the DMG I found the mercenaries as 0 level with d4+3. I vaguely remember d4 for peasants but can't find the reference right now.

 

[James Gasik]

Man I hope the average 0-level character doesn't have more hit points than a 1st-level Wizard. That's just embarrassing.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Can you say where a 1e 1d4 is stated? The MM says d6, and the DMG I found the mercenaries as 0 level with d4+3. I vaguely remember d4 for peasants but can't find the reference right now.

Maybe I have been remembering it all wrong all these years. When I ran 1E I usually gave the human NPC opponents class levels, and the players were not fighting ordinary farmers and such so I probably did not worry too much about their stats. I tended not to even look much at the stat blocks for humans, demi-humans, and humanoids once I learned the different HD values for the humanoids. Since they did not really have special feats or powers there was not much else you needed to know.

One day I actually read all of those entries in the MM and it was quite an eye-opener. The 1977 MM was the very first AD&D book and the Chainmail war game roots were very clear. The races all had these standard orders of battle for huge random encounters with say, high elves, that would list things like 10-100 archers, 10-60 medium cavalry, 1-8 unicorn riders, 2-12 lords riding hippogriffs, etc. There was also fluff like favored colors for clothing, descriptions of villages or lairs with guard beasts and pets, and so on. We could have used lots of it for non-combat encounters and fun visits to dwarf fortresses or elf woodlands (as seen in LOTR!), but unfortunately we were hack-and-slashers who were not that interested in NPC interactions.