D&D 5E (2024) Unconfirmed Dark Sun World Book

Superchunk77 · Wednesday at 11:32 PM

mamba said:
not sure how it was presented there, did not take much of a look.

What stuck with me is that preserver / defiler should not be subclasses and that the preserver was not actually preserving anything. Doing literally anything else to help the planet would be time better spent than what the preserver did (basically a temporary illusion rather than a longterm improvement, however small)

The preservation subclass was for druids for some reason, and you're right, it didn't actually preserve anything, it was just a buffing subclass. If anything, it gave off a more "guarded lands" type of subclass. At the very least it needs to be renamed to avoid confusion with actual preservers.

The defiler subclass was for sorcerers, and it basically let you use your own hit dice to add to a spell's damage roll. You could also steal life from 1 creature 1/long rest. But nothing about draining plant life, which was what defiling magic is supposed to do. Only dragons/sorcerer-kings could defile creatures instead of plants. But I believe this hit point draining defiling mechanic was sort of a port from 4e.

From this material released so far they appear to be going the route of defiling = hit point drain, which was one of the big misses from the 4e books.

Zardnaar · Wednesday at 11:35 PM

mamba said:
yeah, Vader, the Emperor, and the other Sith all were paragons of virtue and looking out for the greater good… I think the comparison is accurate, I just do not arrive at the same destination.

I'm not opposed to defiling having a corruption mechanic.

Become defiler youre an NPC if they go with no PC defilers.

So PCs can defile. They can't be defilers though just like old Star Wars rpg you cant play a darksider.

Zardnaar · Wednesday at 11:42 PM

Staffan said:
Athas started out being as green and verdant as any other setting (well, there was the Blue Age before that when it was almost entirely covered in water, but after that). Rampant defiling, particularly in the course of a series of genocidal wars, was what turned Athas into what it is today.

What you are saying is essentially the same as "Well, me driving a gasoline-powered car has such a small effect on the eco-system that it isn't noticeable, and the forests and algae should be able to absorb that CO2 and perhaps even grow stronger from it." And that might on one level be true, but it doesn't work when you have hundreds of millions, or possibly billions, of people dependent on fossil fuels for transportation as well as for generation of power for all sorts of other purposes.

In the old lore, defiling killed the affected area dead for a year, before any sort of recovery could even begin – and such recovery would take many years, because the area would be leached of any nutrients of any sort or anything else necessary for life. It would basically be like watching life develop on Surtsey. More abundant life meant you defiled a smaller area, but the area got killed just as dead either way. Being careful and not taking more than the ecosystem can recover from is what's called Preserving.

This.

Iirc they had 2000 odd years of wars and epic spells messing things up.

Superchunk77 · Wednesday at 11:49 PM

Zardnaar said:
Im not opposed to defiling having a corruption mechanic.

Become defiler youre an NPC if they gobwith no PC defilers.

So PCs can defile. They can't be defilers though just like old Star Wars rpg you cant play a darksider.

Sooooo, you can defile but if you do you lose your character? What kind of a choice is that?

3.5e had the best defiling mechanic for dark sun (it was in Dragon magazine). You defile plant life and gain defiler points which ended up being a corruption mechanic. The more you take, the more your physical form would suffer. There were choices for getting rid of the corruption which included the quick option of accepting it as a permanent stain on your soul, or taking more time to meditate it away. The defiler points could be used to power metamagic effects.

Zardnaar · Wednesday at 11:53 PM

Superchunk77 said:
Sooooo, you can defile but if you do you lose your character? What kind of a choice is that?

3.5e had the best defiling mechanic for dark sun (it was in Dragon magazine). You defile plant life and gain defiler points which ended up being a corruption mechanic. The more you take, the more your physical form would suffer. There were choices for getting rid of the corruption which included the quick option of accepting it as a permanent stain on your soul, or taking more time to meditate it away. The defiler points could be used to power metamagic effects.

Its a risk/reward payoff.

Make defiling more powerful than preserving. Defile to much you become a defiler and become an NPC under the DMs control.

Defiling points equal to your spellcasting stat. Exceed them each time you defile wis or cha save vs your own save DC. Fail and you fall.

Or you become a defiler subclass like 5.0 Oathbreaker Paladin. Lose your class features, gain new ones.

SkidAce · 2026-01-08T00:06:05+0000

mamba said:
automatic upcast maybe

I was going to post:

Simple rule for defiling? Only defilers can upcast spells.

mamba · 2026-01-08T00:44:18+0000

Zardnaar said:
I'm not opposed to defiling having a corruption mechanic.

neither am I

Zardnaar said:
PCs can defile. They can't be defilers though just like old Star Wars rpg you cant play a darksider.

My understanding is you either preserve or you defile, there is no third choice, and that is true for all casters, so not just one subclass each. If the new DS breaks with this and has one subclass for each, then to me it is a failure just for that

SableWyvern · 2026-01-08T01:16:56+0000

mamba said:
My understanding is you either preserve or you defile, there is no third choice, and that is true for all casters, so not just one subclass each. If the new DS breaks with this and has one subclass for each, then to me it is a failure just for that

It was the case in the official AD&D implementation that a magic user is either a defiler or a preserver, with no option to choose after the class is selected. As far as I'm aware, 3e and 4e worked the same way.

I personally consider this a huge failure of the system.

mamba · 2026-01-08T01:48:28+0000

SableWyvern said:
It was the case in the official AD&D implementation that a magic user is either a defiler or a preserver, with no option to choose after the class is selected. As far as I'm aware, 3e and 4e worked the same way.

I personally consider this a huge failure of the system.

I have no problem with it being on a per case basis, but at a minimum I see it as a universal approach, not one subclass for defilers, one for preservers, and all the others do whatever they also do in FR and Eberron

SableWyvern · 2026-01-08T01:50:44+0000

mamba said:
I have no problem with it being on a per case basis, but at a minimum I see it as a universal approach, not one subclass for defilers, one for preservers, and all the others do whatever they also do in FR and Eberron

Oh, yeah, if you're using what D&D calls arcane magic in Dark Sun, you are drawing power from living things and, if you're not intentionally careful about it, you're destroying plants. That part shouldn't be optional.

D&D 5E (2024) Unconfirmed Dark Sun World Book

Superchunk77

Hero

Zardnaar

Legend

Zardnaar

Legend

Superchunk77

Hero

Zardnaar

Legend

SkidAce

Legend

mamba

Legend

SableWyvern

Cruel Despot

mamba

Legend

SableWyvern

Cruel Despot

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