D&D General Your Core Classes if The Core 4 Aren't Allowed

doctorbadwolf said:

That is fantastic. I mean anything inspired by Paracelsus is gonna get points from me, but that is just really good.

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Thanks! I've included elves in Homo sapiens for a long time now, under Tolkien's influence, and, when I read Paracelsus' book describing undines, I recognized some of the folkloric elements Tolkien used to create his elves, such as their beauty, and how they of all the "spirit-men" most closely resemble humans with whom they intermarry at times, thereby gaining a soul, and how they're apt to suddenly disappear back into the water. I was reminded particularly of the tale of Mithrellas, the elven progenitrix of the line of the Princes of Dol Amroth, who suddenly disappeared after the birth of her second child with Imrazôr the Númenórean. Also, of Lúthien's sharing of her husband's "mortal" fate. Other resemblances are the sea-longing of the Eldar, how they travel west and "disappear" over the sea, and how many of the elves come from a land, Beleriand, which now lies drowned beneath the waves.

This association of the undines with Tolkien's elves was coupled with a recognition that his other non-human races have parallels in Paracelsus' book: dwarves with gnomes, ents with the wood-dwellers, and orcs/goblins with the vulcans. I was also aware that each of the greatest of the male Valar are associated with one of the classical elements: Manwë with Air, Ulmo with Water, and Aulë with Earth. This implies somewhat an association between Morgoth and Fire that, I think, the text bears out. Couple all this with these Valar each having an association with one of the races above, except for Ulmo who is said to love the Children of Ilúvatar, both men and elves, whom he is said to have never abandoned, and the strong association of Ulmo with the mission of Eärendil the Mariner to the west on behalf of both men and elves of whom, as a half-elf, he was a representative, and I was led back to seeing the two peoples as one and using Paracelsus' term undine, or wavelings, as an umbrella for both along with others possible variants such as water nymphs, selkies, etc.

Hriston said:

Thanks! I've included elves in Homo sapiens for a long time now [...]

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Ironically, elves in my settings-- when I include elves in my settings-- aren't even humanoid, much less human. In Cosmic Rangers, the "Feywild" and the "Far Realms" are... both a spectrum and a matter of perspective... and the alufey are actually quite a lot closer to the aberration end of the spectrum than most humans realize.

The Tolkien influence that I wear on my sleeve is that the oroghai are former elves (or the descendants of former elves) who were captured and twisted by black magic into enemies of elvenkind. The twist is that they're victims of a secret civil war in elven society; when elves discovered that they can't actually participate in religion the way mortals understand it, the majority accepted it and a minority became obsessed with extreme genetic alteration, neurosurgery, and black magic to create artificial souls that can attach to their aberration physiology. Orcs are living weapons created by the "light elves" to eradicate and humiliate the "dark elves".

So the draugh elves are technically capable of becoming clerics, but the Celestials that invest priests with holy power want nothing to do with them; all of them are warlocks. Ironically, orcs after the first generation share the elves' attraction to the Holy Church, count as mortal humanoids, and their souls are tainted by what was done to them-- but not by their own sins. There are still more orcish warlocks than clerics, but orcs are the third-most common species in the priesthood of the (humanocentric) Holy Church, after humans and lizardfolk.

Hriston said:

Thanks! I've included elves in Homo sapiens for a long time now, under Tolkien's influence, and, when I read Paracelsus' book describing undines, I recognized some of the folkloric elements Tolkien used to create his elves, such as their beauty, and how they of all the "spirit-men" most closely resemble humans with whom they intermarry at times, thereby gaining a soul, and how they're apt to suddenly disappear back into the water. I was reminded particularly of the tale of Mithrellas, the elven progenitrix of the line of the Princes of Dol Amroth, who suddenly disappeared after the birth of her second child with Imrazôr the Númenórean. Also, of Lúthien's sharing of her husband's "mortal" fate. Other resemblances are the sea-longing of the Eldar, how they travel west and "disappear" over the sea, and how many of the elves come from a land, Beleriand, which now lies drowned beneath the waves.

This association of the undines with Tolkien's elves was coupled with a recognition that his other non-human races have parallels in Paracelsus' book: dwarves with gnomes, ents with the wood-dwellers, and orcs/goblins with the vulcans. I was also aware that each of the greatest of the male Valar are associated with one of the classical elements: Manwë with Air, Ulmo with Water, and Aulë with Earth. This implies somewhat an association between Morgoth and Fire that, I think, the text bears out. Couple all this with these Valar each having an association with one of the races above, except for Ulmo who is said to love the Children of Ilúvatar, both men and elves, whom he is said to have never abandoned, and the strong association of Ulmo with the mission of Eärendil the Mariner to the west on behalf of both men and elves of whom, as a half-elf, he was a representative, and I was led back to seeing the two peoples as one and using Paracelsus' term undine, or wavelings, as an umbrella for both along with others possible variants such as water nymphs, selkies, etc.

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That is, and i mean with as a compliment of the highest order, some deeeep nerd stuff. Love it.

Dammit, the bug bit me again; I'm using Skills & Powers and Spells & Magic to reclass AD&D 1e/2e along those lines.

Most of the classes I use are upgunned compared to their core counterparts. This is intentional. Warriors are the easiest class group to differentiate, then Mages and Priests... but Rogues are a pain in the ass. Once you get past Thief-Assassin-Bard, everything seems like it's too niche or isn't meaningfully different from another Rogue class on a mechanical level. Especially if you don't want to keep slapping different kinds of spellcasting on them.

Generally speaking...

Under Warrior, I split Cavalier/Samurai and Fighter (Myrmidon)/Bushi into their own classes, combine Swashbuckler (Fighter) and Swashbuckler (Thief) with... fewer/less Thief skills, Swordsage (Kensai). Paladin and Ranger get more spellcasting access earlier; Paladins absorb Sohei, and Rangers get better Thief abilities instead of the favored enemy stuff.

Myrmidon and Swashbuckler keep the Fighter XP table. Cavalier and Swordsage use the Paladin/Ranger.

Under Rogue, Thief picks up some of the Yakuza territory stuff. Assassin works as reprinted in The Scarlet Brotherhood, but uses the Fighter XP table; they gain partial spellcasting at 4th level, learning Mage spells from the Illusion, Shadow, Dimension, and Necromancy schools, plus the Ninja spells from PHBR15. Bard gets less Mage spell access (Major Divination and Illusion, Minor in all other schools of philosophy) in exchange for Song Magic specialization and limited Priest spells; they can learn (as a Mage) All, Astral, Charm, Divination, Healing, Numbers, and Thought.

The Hunter class is more a less a combination of the Scout and Bounty Hunter Thief kits, nerfed skills but better combat.

Rogue classes are hard; except for giving them access to different forms of spellcasting. They either feel too niche or not differentiated enough from each other. I'd like to have a sapper/saboteur rogue, maybe, and and do something with archaeologist/investigator. Possibly Trader, which has precedent in Spelljammer and Dark Sun. What I DO NOT WANT, explicitly, is a courtier or "social" rogue.

Mage classes are probably the easiest. Pick the most iconic specialist mages, trade in some of their school access for other benefits. Or try to replicate some of the later arcane classes. Krynnish moon-mages. I assume modern D&D automatic spell acquisition and use 5e prepared/known with Spells & Magic spell points; different classes might use different casting systems from that book, but I'm only spitballing here.

For me?

• Elementalist/Wu Jen; all Elements plus Song, Alchemy and Geometry, awkward casting method; or Sha'ir, if I can find a better English-language synonym than bard.
• Mountebank/Beguiler; Illusion, Mentalism, Dimensionalism (pick one to specialize); minor Force, Shadow, Song, Wild Magic. Rogue Proficiencies, some Thief abilities.
• Some sort of sage magician-- maybe even "Wizard"-- that gets Abjuration, Divination, Conjuration, plus Alchemy, Artifice, and Geometry. Specialize in one. They can cast unprepared spells as "free magicks" in exchange for extra spell points plus "ritual" casting times.
• Stealify the Witch traditions from Timothy Brannan's OSR supplements.
• Not the biggest fan of Wild Magic, but sure, chuck it in-- Wild Magic specialist plus the least subtle schools.

Priests are also pretty easy. Kill the Cleric, give the Druid and the Spells & Magic Crusader, Monk, and Shaman Major: Healing. Crusader doesn't have reduced spellcasting, Monks gets some of the Scarlet Brotherhood monk abilities, Shamans are less "primitive" and gain Major: Astral and Divination and some 1e Shukenja/3e Shaman bits. Four classes isn't bad, and gives us plenty of variety to differentiate different nonhumans.

Do we want more? Take the Athasian Elemental Cleric, add minor access to the Mage school of their element-- and you've got something between an Athasian Cleric and an L5R Shugenja.

Psychics are a pain-in-the-ass, but obligatory; psionics are core rules in AD&D in the same fashion that Oriental Adventures is a core rulebook. I will not be dissuaded from this.

But all of the 2e psionics systems are ugly as sin, and the 3.5 psionics system doesn't feel like AD&D. So what I'm going to do is nick psychic magic from Paizo's Occult Adventures, using the same spell points and a different spellcasting mechanic than any of the Mage or Priest classes. A lot of work I'm not that interested in doing right now, but basically cherry-picking the Mage and Priest spell lists to construct Psychic disciplines.

The Mystic is a psychic class; it's the Scarlet Brotherhood Monk again, in full, replacing a lot of its class features with psychic spellcasting.

The Psychic is the "pure" psychic class.

Throw in the Soulknife because Soulknives rule.

But I've got more important things to work on.