D&D General Your Core Classes if The Core 4 Aren't Allowed

[Hriston]

That is fantastic. I mean anything inspired by Paracelsus is gonna get points from me, but that is just really good.

Thanks! I've included elves in Homo sapiens for a long time now, under Tolkien's influence, and, when I read Paracelsus' book describing undines, I recognized some of the folkloric elements Tolkien used to create his elves, such as their beauty, and how they of all the "spirit-men" most closely resemble humans with whom they intermarry at times, thereby gaining a soul, and how they're apt to suddenly disappear back into the water. I was reminded particularly of the tale of Mithrellas, the elven progenitrix of the line of the Princes of Dol Amroth, who suddenly disappeared after the birth of her second child with Imrazôr the Númenórean. Also, of Lúthien's sharing of her husband's "mortal" fate. Other resemblances are the sea-longing of the Eldar, how they travel west and "disappear" over the sea, and how many of the elves come from a land, Beleriand, which now lies drowned beneath the waves.

This association of the undines with Tolkien's elves was coupled with a recognition that his other non-human races have parallels in Paracelsus' book: dwarves with gnomes, ents with the wood-dwellers, and orcs/goblins with the vulcans. I was also aware that each of the greatest of the male Valar are associated with one of the classical elements: Manwë with Air, Ulmo with Water, and Aulë with Earth. This implies somewhat an association between Morgoth and Fire that, I think, the text bears out. Couple all this with these Valar each having an association with one of the races above, except for Ulmo who is said to love the Children of Ilúvatar, both men and elves, whom he is said to have never abandoned, and the strong association of Ulmo with the mission of Eärendil the Mariner to the west on behalf of both men and elves of whom, as a half-elf, he was a representative, and I was led back to seeing the two peoples as one and using Paracelsus' term undine, or wavelings, as an umbrella for both along with others possible variants such as water nymphs, selkies, etc.

 

[DammitVictor]

Thanks! I've included elves in Homo sapiens for a long time now [...]

Ironically, elves in my settings-- when I include elves in my settings-- aren't even humanoid, much less human. In Cosmic Rangers, the "Feywild" and the "Far Realms" are... both a spectrum and a matter of perspective... and the alufey are actually quite a lot closer to the aberration end of the spectrum than most humans realize.

The Tolkien influence that I wear on my sleeve is that the oroghai are former elves (or the descendants of former elves) who were captured and twisted by black magic into enemies of elvenkind. The twist is that they're victims of a secret civil war in elven society; when elves discovered that they can't actually participate in religion the way mortals understand it, the majority accepted it and a minority became obsessed with extreme genetic alteration, neurosurgery, and black magic to create artificial souls that can attach to their aberration physiology. Orcs are living weapons created by the "light elves" to eradicate and humiliate the "dark elves".

So the draugh elves are technically capable of becoming clerics, but the Celestials that invest priests with holy power want nothing to do with them; all of them are warlocks. Ironically, orcs after the first generation share the elves' attraction to the Holy Church, count as mortal humanoids, and their souls are tainted by what was done to them-- but not by their own sins. There are still more orcish warlocks than clerics, but orcs are the third-most common species in the priesthood of the (humanocentric) Holy Church, after humans and lizardfolk.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Thanks! I've included elves in Homo sapiens for a long time now, under Tolkien's influence, and, when I read Paracelsus' book describing undines, I recognized some of the folkloric elements Tolkien used to create his elves, such as their beauty, and how they of all the "spirit-men" most closely resemble humans with whom they intermarry at times, thereby gaining a soul, and how they're apt to suddenly disappear back into the water. I was reminded particularly of the tale of Mithrellas, the elven progenitrix of the line of the Princes of Dol Amroth, who suddenly disappeared after the birth of her second child with Imrazôr the Númenórean. Also, of Lúthien's sharing of her husband's "mortal" fate. Other resemblances are the sea-longing of the Eldar, how they travel west and "disappear" over the sea, and how many of the elves come from a land, Beleriand, which now lies drowned beneath the waves.

This association of the undines with Tolkien's elves was coupled with a recognition that his other non-human races have parallels in Paracelsus' book: dwarves with gnomes, ents with the wood-dwellers, and orcs/goblins with the vulcans. I was also aware that each of the greatest of the male Valar are associated with one of the classical elements: Manwë with Air, Ulmo with Water, and Aulë with Earth. This implies somewhat an association between Morgoth and Fire that, I think, the text bears out. Couple all this with these Valar each having an association with one of the races above, except for Ulmo who is said to love the Children of Ilúvatar, both men and elves, whom he is said to have never abandoned, and the strong association of Ulmo with the mission of Eärendil the Mariner to the west on behalf of both men and elves of whom, as a half-elf, he was a representative, and I was led back to seeing the two peoples as one and using Paracelsus' term undine, or wavelings, as an umbrella for both along with others possible variants such as water nymphs, selkies, etc.

That is, and i mean with as a compliment of the highest order, some deeeep nerd stuff. Love it.

 

[DammitVictor]

Dammit, the bug bit me again; I'm using Skills & Powers and Spells & Magic to reclass AD&D 1e/2e along those lines.

Most of the classes I use are upgunned compared to their core counterparts. This is intentional. Warriors are the easiest class group to differentiate, then Mages and Priests... but Rogues are a pain in the ass. Once you get past Thief-Assassin-Bard, everything seems like it's too niche or isn't meaningfully different from another Rogue class on a mechanical level. Especially if you don't want to keep slapping different kinds of spellcasting on them.

 

[DammitVictor]

Generally speaking...

Under Warrior, I split Cavalier/Samurai and Fighter (Myrmidon)/Bushi into their own classes, combine Swashbuckler (Fighter) and Swashbuckler (Thief) with... fewer/less Thief skills, Swordsage (Kensai). Paladin and Ranger get more spellcasting access earlier; Paladins absorb Sohei, and Rangers get better Thief abilities instead of the favored enemy stuff.

Myrmidon and Swashbuckler keep the Fighter XP table. Cavalier and Swordsage use the Paladin/Ranger.

Under Rogue, Thief picks up some of the Yakuza territory stuff. Assassin works as reprinted in The Scarlet Brotherhood, but uses the Fighter XP table; they gain partial spellcasting at 4th level, learning Mage spells from the Illusion, Shadow, Dimension, and Necromancy schools, plus the Ninja spells from PHBR15. Bard gets less Mage spell access (Major Divination and Illusion, Minor in all other schools of philosophy) in exchange for Song Magic specialization and limited Priest spells; they can learn (as a Mage) All, Astral, Charm, Divination, Healing, Numbers, and Thought.

The Hunter class is more a less a combination of the Scout and Bounty Hunter Thief kits, nerfed skills but better combat.

Rogue classes are hard; except for giving them access to different forms of spellcasting. They either feel too niche or not differentiated enough from each other. I'd like to have a sapper/saboteur rogue, maybe, and and do something with archaeologist/investigator. Possibly Trader, which has precedent in Spelljammer and Dark Sun. What I DO NOT WANT, explicitly, is a courtier or "social" rogue.

Mage classes are probably the easiest. Pick the most iconic specialist mages, trade in some of their school access for other benefits. Or try to replicate some of the later arcane classes. Krynnish moon-mages. I assume modern D&D automatic spell acquisition and use 5e prepared/known with Spells & Magic spell points; different classes might use different casting systems from that book, but I'm only spitballing here.

For me?

• Elementalist/Wu Jen; all Elements plus Song, Alchemy and Geometry, awkward casting method; or Sha'ir, if I can find a better English-language synonym than bard.
• Mountebank/Beguiler; Illusion, Mentalism, Dimensionalism (pick one to specialize); minor Force, Shadow, Song, Wild Magic. Rogue Proficiencies, some Thief abilities.
• Some sort of sage magician-- maybe even "Wizard"-- that gets Abjuration, Divination, Conjuration, plus Alchemy, Artifice, and Geometry. Specialize in one. They can cast unprepared spells as "free magicks" in exchange for extra spell points plus "ritual" casting times.
• Stealify the Witch traditions from Timothy Brannan's OSR supplements.
• Not the biggest fan of Wild Magic, but sure, chuck it in-- Wild Magic specialist plus the least subtle schools.

Priests are also pretty easy. Kill the Cleric, give the Druid and the Spells & Magic Crusader, Monk, and Shaman Major: Healing. Crusader doesn't have reduced spellcasting, Monks gets some of the Scarlet Brotherhood monk abilities, Shamans are less "primitive" and gain Major: Astral and Divination and some 1e Shukenja/3e Shaman bits. Four classes isn't bad, and gives us plenty of variety to differentiate different nonhumans.

Do we want more? Take the Athasian Elemental Cleric, add minor access to the Mage school of their element-- and you've got something between an Athasian Cleric and an L5R Shugenja.

Psychics are a pain-in-the-ass, but obligatory; psionics are core rules in AD&D in the same fashion that Oriental Adventures is a core rulebook. I will not be dissuaded from this.

But all of the 2e psionics systems are ugly as sin, and the 3.5 psionics system doesn't feel like AD&D. So what I'm going to do is nick psychic magic from Paizo's Occult Adventures, using the same spell points and a different spellcasting mechanic than any of the Mage or Priest classes. A lot of work I'm not that interested in doing right now, but basically cherry-picking the Mage and Priest spell lists to construct Psychic disciplines.

The Mystic is a psychic class; it's the Scarlet Brotherhood Monk again, in full, replacing a lot of its class features with psychic spellcasting.

The Psychic is the "pure" psychic class.

Throw in the Soulknife because Soulknives rule.

But I've got more important things to work on.

 

[Hriston]

The Tolkien influence that I wear on my sleeve is that the oroghai are former elves (or the descendants of former elves) who were captured and twisted by black magic into enemies of elvenkind.

I too am a fan of the lore about orcs having been bred from captured and twisted elves. I read the published form of The Silmarillion in my early teens, and, for many years, it formed the basis of my narrative about their origin. As you probably know, JRR Tolkien's writing on the matter never achieved a finished form, and the true origin of the orcs was left an open question at the time of his death. He floated other ideas including being made by Morgoth "of the subterranean heats and slime" (magma?) possibly "in mockery" of the elves but not actual elves, descent from "Boldogs", i.e. maiar in goblin-form, and being bred from beasts or corrupted men.

I've taken to answering this question for myself with an "all of the above" approach, but, after reading A Book on Nymphs, Sylphs, Pygmies, and Salamanders, and on the Other Spirits by Paracelsus, my views have taken an unexpected turn. That orcs are indeed "beasts" in origin, but in the sense Paracelsus describes all his "spirit-men", as lacking an immortal soul. The particular beast from which orcs are derived I identify with what Paracelsus calls vulcans/salamanders, "the fire people whose yelling, hammering, and working can be heard in volcanic mountains" and "when the elements are incinerated." Their bodies are "long, narrow, and lean", and "they can speak but roughly and rarely."

But what is the origin of these vulcani who were then corrupted and bred into the dark lord's foot soldiers? Importantly, Paracelsus describes his "spirit-men" as part of the natural world, which reminds me of this quote, spoken by Frodo in LotR, Book 6, Chapter I (p 914 in my copy):

The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the Orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them; and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures.​

The natural world and its living creatures, in Tolkien's legendarium, are a realization of the Music of the Ainur, which brings this passage to mind:

But for a long while they sang only each alone, or but few together, while the rest hearkened; for each comprehended only that part of the mind of Ilúvatar from which he came, and in the understanding of their brethren they grew but slowly. Yet ever as they listened they came to deeper understanding, and increased in unison and harmony. (Ainulindalë)​

​

Later in The Silmarillion, Manwë speaks with Yavanna, saying:

'O Kementári, Eru hath spoken, saying: "Do then any of the Valar suppose that I did not hear all the Song, even the least sound of the least voice? Behold! When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar and the olvar, and some will dwell therein, and be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared. For a time: while the Firstborn are in their power, and while the Secondborn are young." But dost thou not now remember, Kementári, that thy thought sang not always alone? Did not thy thought and mine meet also, so that we took wing together like great birds that soar above the clouds? That also shall come to be by the heed of Ilúvatar, and before the Children awake there shall go forth with wings like the wind the Eagles of the Lords of the West.'​

​

This seems to describe an example of the singing "but few together" described in the earlier passage, in this case concerning Manwë and Yavanna, and, by extension, I imagine other pairings of thought might have taken place between Yavanna and others of the Ainur to produce other types of living creatures. Given the fiery nature of the vulcani, therefore, might not they be the result of a meeting in song of the thoughts of Yavanna and Melkor?

 

[Hriston]

That is, and i mean with as a compliment of the highest order, some deeeep nerd stuff. Love it.

Appreciate the compliment. There's some more just above if you're interested!

 

[Quartz]

You are asked to make a 3pp DnD 5e competitor.

I'm late to the game but I hope I can still play. Competition is not the way to go; cooperation is.

The campaign is Oerth's Celestial Imperium.

Playable races are Dragonborn, Lizardmen, Kobolds, and Tortles, with lizardmen as the norm. Humans etc are monsters.

Base classes are Barbarian, Bard, Warlock (variety of dragon pacts), Paladin, and Monk.

This is a dragon / reptile-dominated area of Oerth. The humans and elves used to live to the east and destroyed themselves in a magical cataclysm.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm late to the game but I hope I can still play. Competition is not the way to go; cooperation is.

The campaign is Oerth's Celestial Imperium.

Playable races are Dragonborn, Lizardmen, Kobolds, and Tortles, with lizardmen as the norm. Humans etc are monsters.

Base classes are Barbarian, Bard, Warlock (variety of dragon pacts), Paladin, and Monk.

This is a dragon / reptile-dominated area of Oerth. The humans and elves used to live to the east and destroyed themselves in a magical cataclysm.

Competitor is a very general term, here.

I do like going with a sub setting.