Difficulty Numbers: Scaling, or Static?

Aldarc · 2026-02-12T14:23:20+0000

Reynard said:
Doesn't this become something of a "quantum ogre" problem? If you have a cave from which raiders emerge to harass passing caravans on the King's Road, but only decide whether they are goblins, bugbears or ogres depending on when the PCs bother to confront them, how do you make them inherently part of the world?

Not sure if I understand how this pertains to quantum ogres in any way or how this somehow makes them less part of the world.

Reynard said:
Doesn't this become something of a "quantum ogre" problem? If you have a cave from which raiders emerge to harass passing caravans on the King's Road, but only decide whether they are goblins, bugbears or ogres depending on when the PCs bother to confront them, how do you make them inherently part of the world?

Maybe. WoW used to be "static" DC. Just mostly level-based challenges. But they changed the scaling in one of the expansions so that mobs scale up to wherever you are. Again, part of that involves keeping content relevant and preventing the PC from just out-leveling zones so quickly that they aren't fun or challenging anymore.

payn · 2026-02-12T14:46:22+0000

If world consistency is important I think scaling becomes an issue for world building. If you do t want world levels with PCs then you gotta make places for all levels at the start so it is consistent. Now with static like BA you don’t have to worry because everything is within reach. An entire army is always a threat to a dragon. A dragon is always a threat to s single soldier.

Aldarc · 2026-02-12T14:51:47+0000

payn said:
If world consistency is important I think scaling becomes an issue for world building. If you do t want world levels with PCs then you gotta make places for all levels at the start so it is consistent. Now with static like BA you don’t have to worry because everything is within reach. An entire army is always a threat to a dragon. A dragon is always a threat to s single soldier.

I'm just saying that there are an increasing number of video games that are also adapting the use of level scaling to keep content relevant.

Reynard · 2026-02-12T14:55:43+0000

payn said:
If world consistency is important I think scaling becomes an issue for world building. If you do t want world levels with PCs then you gotta make places for all levels at the start so it is consistent. Now with static like BA you don’t have to worry because everything is within reach. An entire army is always a threat to a dragon. A dragon is always a threat to s single soldier.

I am not sure what BA refers to here.

Reynard · 2026-02-12T14:58:03+0000

Aldarc said:
Not sure if I understand how this pertains to quantum ogres in any way or how this somehow makes them less part of the world.

Because the cave always includes monsters of the appropriate challenge rating of the PCs. There is no way for the PCs to get chased off, or wait and later go ham on the raiders. It isn't precisely quantum ogre, but is effectively the same thing.

And because you can't say what is there until the PCs engage it, you can't build the setting around a group of goblins vs a group of ogres dwelling there -- which should have real implications for the locals.

payn · 2026-02-12T15:32:03+0000

Reynard said:
I am not sure what BA refers to here.

Bounded accuracy

Reynard · 2026-02-12T15:38:01+0000

payn said:
Bounded accuracy

Oh. Yeah. Duh.

Boundaded Accuracy only goes so far -- especially in 5E where only HP and damage output really matter for CR -- but it does help a little at least.

TwoSix · 2026-02-12T15:43:25+0000

Reynard said:
Because the cave always includes monsters of the appropriate challenge rating of the PCs. There is no way for the PCs to get chased off, or wait and later go ham on the raiders. It isn't precisely quantum ogre, but is effectively the same thing.

And because you can't say what is there until the PCs engage it, you can't build the setting around a group of goblins vs a group of ogres dwelling there -- which should have real implications for the locals.

I think there are very few people who are advocating for that level of disconnect in a TTRPG environment, even if they do prefer to have scaled challenges.

If you want to play a game where the challenges stay within a certain difficulty framework, as a GM you need to frame challenges that are thematically relevant to the PCs at that point in time. If you introduce a pack of goblins as a level 1 challenge and the PCs don't interact them, I don't think anyone is advocating scaling them up to level 10 just because the PCs came back a few months later.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't recontextualize the challenge; maybe leaving the goblins alone allowed them to steal a magic item, and now they're all possessed by powerful demons. But even then, doing that sort of action should only be done occasionally less it seems artificial.

Reynard · 2026-02-12T15:45:24+0000

TwoSix said:
I think there are very few people who are advocating for that level of disconnect in a TTRPG environment, even if they do prefer to have scaled challenges.

If you want to play a game where the challenges stay within a certain difficulty framework, as a GM you need to frame challenges that are thematically relevant to the PCs at that point in time. If you introduce a pack of goblins as a level 1 challenge and the PCs don't interact them, I don't think anyone is advocating scaling them up to level 10 just because the PCs came back a few months later.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't recontextualize the challenge; maybe leaving the goblins alone allowed them to steal a magic item, and now they're all possessed by powerful demons. But even then, doing that sort of action should only be done occasionally less it seems artificial.

It is interesting that "scaling DCs" is almost universally rejected, but lots of folks seem to be fine with a "scaled world".

TwoSix · 2026-02-12T15:49:05+0000

Reynard said:
It is interesting that "scaling DCs" is almost universally rejected, but lots of folks seem to be fine with a "scaled world".

I mean, I think people are generally in favor of the game being a series of "interesting" encounters; constantly having encounters that are cakewalks, or ones where they have to flee quickly or die screaming work against that. Some players have a greater taste for those kinds of encounters because they find them to help enhance setting verisimilitude.

Difficulty Numbers: Scaling, or Static?

Aldarc

Legend

payn

Glory to Marik

Aldarc

Legend

Reynard

aka Ian Eller

Reynard

aka Ian Eller

payn

Glory to Marik

Reynard

aka Ian Eller

TwoSix

The Year of the TwoSix

Reynard

aka Ian Eller

TwoSix

The Year of the TwoSix

Similar Threads

Recent & Upcoming Releases