D&D 4E What Happens If You Hold A Non-Offhand-Weapon In Your Other Hand?

A simple attempt to compile all my house rules has taken on monstrous proportions, and while thumbing through the Player's Handbook for 4E, I can't seem to find anything that describes what happens if you're not a Ranger and hold a non-offhand weapon in your offhand. Is there some sort of penalty? Are you just unable to use it for anything? Do you treat it as something you have to draw, as though it were in your pack?

Unless specified, you don't use it...normally. You could pick up a feat (have to check to see if they are available) which uses two weapons, which could apply.

I'd say it's simply something you cannot use for anything that requires using an off-hand weapon.

But I wouldn't require you to draw the weapon if it's already in your hand, though I'd actually have to check the exact wordings on drawing weapons (is it even "drawing", or is it "readying"?) to see if other interpretations are also viable.
Obviously you could argue with in-world logic that you probably have a dominant hand and wielding a weapon in the wrong hand is suboptimal, but I'd say it's somethinig you can just gloss over.

Though I would say that you cannot switch your weapon in the middle of resolving the attack. At least not in the obvious cheese way that you use one for the attack roll and the other for the damage roll, but also not if you get multiple attacks and use the flaming longsword against the ice golem and the ice-longsword against the fire elemental while resolving Come and Get It.

From Rules Compendium, pg 270:

Off-Hand: An off-hand weapon is light enough that the attacker can hold it and attack effectively with it while also holding a weapon in his or her main hand. An adventurer can’t attack with both weapons in the same turn, unless he or she has a power that allows such an attack, but he or she can attack with either weapon.

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The rules are implicitly telling you that you cannot hold and attack effectively with a weapon while also holding a weapon in your main hand unless it has the Off-Hand property.

4e was very explicit by design. If it does not have a rule or option for something, then it is beyond the scope of the game. Unless there is an exception for it, which most likely will be a unique feature or ability for a specific class or build. But that won't be universal for all characters. If you go outside the lines, then you are on your own.

Jacob Lewis said:

From Rules Compendium, pg 270:

The rules are implicitly telling you that you cannot hold and attack effectively with a weapon while also holding a weapon in your main hand unless it has the Off-Hand property.

4e was very explicit by design. If it does not have a rule or option for something, then it is beyond the scope of the game. Unless there is an exception for it, which most likely will be a unique feature or ability for a specific class or build. But that won't be universal for all characters. If you go outside the lines, then you are on your own.

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That's the problem in a nutshell. I'm looking for something explicit, because the implicit leads to anybody's guess (as demonstrated by the responses, all of which are possible approaches). I was hoping there was something explicit I'd missed.

b_took said:

That's the problem in a nutshell. I'm looking for something explicit, because the implicit leads to anybody's guess (as demonstrated by the responses, all of which are possible approaches). I was hoping there was something explicit I'd missed.

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"An adventurer can’t attack with both weapons in the same turn, unless he or she has a power that allows such an attack, but he or she can attack with either weapon" seems pretty darn explicit to me.

I think the text on pages 215, 217, and 270 of the 4E PH is also pretty clear.

215: (bolding mine)

Finally, weapons are classified as either onehanded or two-handed. A one-handed weapon is light enough or balanced enough to be used in one hand. A two-handed weapon is too heavy or unbalanced to use without two hands. Bows and some other weapons require two hands because of their construction. Some one-handed weapons are light enough for you to use in your off hand while holding another one-handed weapon in your other hand. Doing this doesn’t let you make multiple attacks in a round (unless you have powers that let you do so), but you can attack with either weapon. Other one-handed weapons are large enough that you can keep a good grip on them with two hands and deal extra damage by using them as two-handed weapons.

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217:

Off-Hand: An off-hand weapon is light enough that you can hold it and attack effectively with it while holding a weapon in your main hand. You can’t attack with both weapons in the same turn, unless you have a power that lets you do so, but you can attack with either weapon.

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270:

Simply wielding a weapon in each hand doesn’t allow you to make two attacks in a round. If you hold two melee weapons, you can use either one to make a melee attack.

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As for the question "what happens if you're not a Ranger and hold a non-offhand weapon in your offhand?", why would anything "happen"? What happens when you hold any other object in your hand?

Well, when you hold a shield, you don't gain any bonuses without the requisite proficiency. One wonders about the rules for other items with special rules regarding them. Do a weapon's properties still apply if you're incapable of using it to attack (e.g. Dragonslayer Weapon, Pact Blade)? Drawing a weapon is a minor action; if the mainhand weapon is dropped, is the offhand weapon now suddenly a mainhand weapon, or does it require an action to change hands?

b_took said:

Well, when you hold a shield, you don't gain any bonuses without the requisite proficiency. One wonders about the rules for other items with special rules regarding them.

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The shield is giving you defense bonuses if you're holding it and have proficiency. Weapons don't normally give static bonuses like that, but I see what you're getting at.

b_took said:

Do a weapon's properties still apply if you're incapable of using it to attack (e.g. Dragonslayer Weapon, Pact Blade)?

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What do you mean "incapable of using it to attack"? The rules on magic weapons (PH 232) say that if you're not proficient with a weapon you can still attack with it, you just don't get a proficiency bonus. The rules for magic item categories (PH 231) and properties of magic items (PH 225) don't seem to put any restrictions on how the wielder benefits from those. It seems like you'd just have to be holding the weapon.

b_took said:

Drawing a weapon is a minor action; if the mainhand weapon is dropped, is the offhand weapon now suddenly a mainhand weapon, or does it require an action to change hands?

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4E doesn't seem to define handedness, other than the other hand from the one you're holding an Off-Hand Weapon in. The rules on 215, 217, and 270 say you can attack with a single weapon using either hand, and don't define any penalty for doing so.

So if you have, say, a longsword in your right hand and dagger in your left, and drop the longsword, there's no need or requirement to switch hands in order to attack normally with the dagger.

Mannahnin said:

The shield is giving you defense bonuses if you're holding it and have proficiency. Weapons don't normally give static bonuses like that, but I see what you're getting at.


What do you mean "incapable of using it to attack"? The rules on magic weapons (PH 232) say that if you're not proficient with a weapon you can still attack with it, you just don't get a proficiency bonus. The rules for magic item categories (PH 231) and properties of magic items (PH 225) don't seem to put any restrictions on how the wielder benefits from those. It seems like you'd just have to be holding the weapon.


4E doesn't seem to define handedness, other than the other hand from the one you're holding an Off-Hand Weapon in. The rules on 215, 217, and 270 say you can attack with a single weapon using either hand, and don't define any penalty for doing so.

So if you have, say, a longsword in your right hand and dagger in your left, and drop the longsword, there's no need or requirement to switch hands in order to attack normally with the dagger.

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What does the phrase "attack effectively" mean in the offhand rules, if not that you cannot make attacks unless the weapon is an offhand weapon?