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So you weaken fighters and Monks in tier 2 to be more in line with Clerics and Druids and now all 4 of them are weaker than Wizards and Sorcerers. Fighters already dominate the other classes in skill checks at low levels and are still pretty darn good at them at high levels. I don't know how...

It is worth more than a 5th level slot at 9th level and at 17th level, when you can use it 3 times with a +17 on the save, it is comparable to some 8th and 9th level spells and way above a 5th level spell. In play is essentially an automatic save on anything and combines with subclass abilities...

That is not easy, especially if you look across all 20 levels. I am going to use specific classes here, because Martial is ambiguous and the term caster can not be applied across the board. You have to actually weaken Fighters and Monks at most levels to be balanced with Druids and Clerics...

For most PCs from the Fighter, Monk and Rogue classes I think casting spells is something they do. So I don't believe this is true in actual play. In the 2024 rules every Rogue I have seen played so far, including both Assasin and Thief, has had either Trustrike or one of the TCE Blade...

That may be the distinction when you are white rooming it and talking about classes, but when you are talking about actual PCs I think it falls flat and PCs are what is played at the table. In play Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters are pretty hard core casters at high level because of the...

Being "not a bad business tactic" (and that is debatable) is not the same as being a "successful business tactic"

Creamcloud said the first two were not martials. This illustrates the problem, we can't even agree on what we are talking about here as it means different things to different people.

A few of the higher level martial features are equal or better than a 5th level spell (Indomitable for one off the top of my head). I don't think there is an "issue" at all, and I am totally fine with the imbalance. Personally, my 2024 play experience indicates some of the martial features...

All things which were part of 2E. You are saying 2E was a failure because of how they rolled out the new edition, not because they rolled out a new edition. That is fundamentally different than saying it was successful or the broader claim about rolling out a new edition being a "successful...

Ok, that still does not explain the logic regarding why releasing 2E was a "successful business tactic" There is absolutely no evidence to back up that claim. You are defending the idea of it being good business to release a new edition when you can't point to that universally being a good...

Personally, I think Martial and Caster are talking about two different things, two different traits and they are not exclusionary. IMO Paladins, Rangers, High Elf Champions, Valor Bards, Bladesingers and Hexblades are all martials. They are also all casters. I don't feel like being one of...

Ok. Then we accepted that spells are ok on a martial (i.e. High Elf Champion), so logically spells are a viable way to balance them at very high levels with full casters. This approach also works for balancing half-casters (and weaker full casters) as well. It is still a very complexc issue...

i think we need some definitions. So a Ranger, paladin or High elf champion are not martials on this discussion? Reguarding high-level and high level spells i agree, but saying there is inbalance at a few specific high level is fundamentally different than suggesting it exists from 1-20. when...

Giving martials spells does not kill martials, they are still martials with spells (like Rqangers and Paladins already are). Also I am not talking about thew best solution, I am talking about the easiest solution. Yeah those things are not equal at 3rd level (or any level). Wild Shape and...

I don't think this is true. Plenty of people love fighters, and other martials. I don't think very many people like non-casters. Moreover popularity is not what we are talking about, it is how to balance martials. Anything you do to balance them will make them less popular IMO.

No I mean spell slots and spells prepared. They are still martials, Rangers and Paladins all cast spells, would you say they are not martials? So do Arcane Tricksters, Eldritch Knights, several Monk subclasses and any characters with a species that gives them spells. Plenty of martials cast...

First off this is not the easiest way. By far the easiest way to close the gap at levels where casters are better is to leave the casters alone and just give the martials spells (or more spells) at certain levels. Also, your table is off and does not actually fix the problem for two reasons...

2E sales were not bad at all, but the release of 2E was a disaster financially for TSR. We are nto talking about theory here, we are talking about the historical record with respect to new editions. It is a mixed record at best (I would actually argue poor) and has certainly not been a...

I would say you are wrong. I would say it was a terrible decision. But generating sales is not everything in terms of being a good business decision. Bump or no they could not even sell all their product and stores were sending unsold product back to TSR is what bankrupted them. No it...

I don't think so, maybe, but it is hardly a harbringer of success. Whether or not it would have happened anyway, we can confidently say bringing 2E to market in the fashion they did was a bad business decision. 2E did not sell as well as anticipated or well enough to keep TSR afloat given the...