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Their "weak fighter" status kinda fell with the 1e UA ...maybe when compared to Humans, but they blew other elves out of the water until other elves' strength increased significantly.

One of my early 3e game's player had a great quote (can't remember the adventure ... updated Keep on the Borderlands?) ... anyway they came across a barrel that was labeled "Elf Pudding", the Half-Orc Barbarian said "Is it made from real Elves?" I always assumed Elves were fairly omnivorous ...

Basic set, Zark the Dwarf. Most memorable? Aeron, High Elf Fighter (1e) ... rolled amazing on stats (4d6, drop lowest). 17 str, 16 int, 14 wis, 19 dex, 16 con, 14 cha. With 1e UA went crazy bow specialist, was amazing. Took down vampires with wooden arrows like a champ. Got rear end handed...

3x=PF1 for me ... Like others, I have so much of it, I won't invest in a new edition. But, I'd like to mash in tons of 1e house ruling mayhem but that is another thread.

I'm thinking that most settings updated them to the setting. Which settings are you referring to? I know squat about Eberron, so I can't help there. In Greyhawk they're evil. In 1e, 2e, 3e, PF ... they're evil. There are always exceptions, but they're supposed to be "rare". In FR they're...

"Tropes, stereotypes, and clichés change all the time. The time of the Always Evil orc or drow is over." -- Say that first, most problems solved "I guess if you don't want to make cultures for your PC races, then yes, D&D is a game of stereotypes." -- Do as you need, when you need. Alignments...

Talk about splitting hairs ... individual to groups becomes a fine line. How many instances does something need to be before you get to your magic number? Because that one number below, well you just told them they don't count. Wha - What? No sweeping generalization of different races...

If you take your arguments to the ultimate conclusion, they might as well not print anything at all. Something somewhere will strike a cord with someone about some horrific event in their life. When you split hairs, your arguments become razor thin and so circumstantial you'll be paralyzed...

Erikson: so there were no groups of elves (wait, were they elves? memory failing here) that had any claim to a superiority complex? or any of the ancient races? Maybe we read different books. Did I find his books racist? Not at all, they were works of fiction. Black Company et. al. -- Look...

That's some muddied waters there. If someone is citing a fantasy world or a fantasy world seems to somehow reinforce some real world supremacist agenda I think we need to take a step back. If Fiction can't be separated from Non-fiction, we have some bigger issues. My fantasy world is just...

Oh, I got that. As SD pointed out before (someone correct me if I'm under/overstating something) it's a fantasy setting that originally did not have as much social realism as many are introducing now. Many of us are happy that way, woot. Many want to change it, woot. But don't claim that it...

Agreed. Drow as good is a mostly FR thing. OR once in a great while thing if you are using the 1e Unearthed Arcana and you have your Longsword two-weapon wielding Ranger a short few years before Crystal Shard hit the shelves. (Mine made it to 8th level, had a permanent limp and lost 2 points...

was just thinking "Hey, get your cultured hides out of my hack-slash-and-monster-bash" (Vice versa applies here)

Some transparency here: I have not read every page, it's after school hours, kids in bed and I have to pick and choose my vice for the night (D&D, Battletech, Diablo3, ... so wish I had time for WoW :confused:). From what I did read, I assumed (always a good way to derail any sane thinking) is...

Speaking out of turn, and possibly out of place ... but where did SD claim that it was an impossibility for those races to have very rare good members? I thought he was getting at the 99% of them are evil, those rare anomalies, are just that. And quite possibly make some good reading. (Man I...

What they say is "You do you, and let me do me" ... What's right for you and your game, is well right for you and your game. Great. I think we all agree. If want your [choose traditionally evil humanoid] that well defined, awesome. Like I said earlier, I really like the history of Orcs in...

Yup. I think that's along the lines I was feeling as well.

I guess I'm really old school, it was much easier to have a legitimate group to hate. To much flavor + humans with green plates stapled to their heads: The point here is that humanity, imo, loses some of its uniqueness as humanoid races become more and more similar (ironically through...

Wow, it's a long thread! I prefer my orcs Tolkien/1e (maybe MERP too) ... Evil, then Evil again. Grummsh? Still Evil, perhaps with a valid complaint ... or a totally skewed point of view. Orcs, Ogres, Goblins+, Gnolls, et. al.; I like the bad guys to bad. (my first experience was the Basic...

Sometimes TPK are fun. We had one that ended a level 13-14 group, the bad rolls and ego led decisions were spectacular and funny. But then again, my group was (and still are? now just more?) older.