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Another benefit of Righteous is that since all you need to do is hit, you may as well try to trigger its hit effect early in the combat by targeting the weakest opposing AC you can. If you do that, the difference of hitting AC vs Reflex is less significant. Just whomp the weakest enemy you can...

I would say you'd get an average of at least 28 temp hp from Righteous (7 temp hp per each to four people in the party; in some cases it could be 8 temp hp to five or six characters). And an average of about 8 hp healed from Invigorating. To personally benefit from Invigorating, you have to...

That's actually been said many times already above. Valiant is better, period, if you're attacking a minion or someone with a few hp. That's one of its selling points.

Well AC 20 is not a level-appropriate opponent for a 1st level character. Regarding the Maul, I was saying to compare a Maul-wielder with Power Attack vs. the Bastard Sword guy without power attack vs 20 AC, because, that's actually a realistic comparison of two things that might happen in...

I would bump up the value of Righteous Smite. You could be in a party of 6 and grant 8 temporary hp to each of them, including yourself. That's a lot of hp. At third level, it's about like giving everyone an extra healing surge per encounter (assuming you hit), without anyone having to spend an...

And of course it goes without saying that you can "engage" a target by simply ending your turn adjacent to it.

Here's a situation a little more friendly to the +1 to hit argument. Level 1, 18 STR, Warhammer or Battleaxe. Let's make the opposing AC 18, which is still a bit to the high side high. +1 Damage: [8 x 10.5] + 15 = 99/20 = 4.950 +1 To Hit: [9 x 9.5] + 14 = 99.5/20 = 4.975 Almost identical vs a...

Well I know it's hypothetical, but that's extremely unrealistic and, really unlike my example, certainly "picking the ideal situation for you." You're using Power Attack against a high AC opponent (why?) while using a one-handed weapon with power attack (uncommon), and you don't have Weapon...

Although Paragon Multi-Classing does allow that option at level 11, of course. I'm playing two Pals right now. One is a Human STR-Pal whose goal in life is to get Righteous Brand from Cleric as an at-will power (to go with Holy and Valiant) at level 11. That would great to play with a DM who...

I think you actually made the math less correct ;). I included the possibility of a critical hit in the DPR. Great point about Valiant, though. A maximized Holy Strike is still probably useful more often, because if you've got a good WIS bonus it's probably better vs 2, and almost always...

Let's look at the level 6 scenario. You're definitely using at least a 1d10 weapon by that point. Let's make it a bastard sword. We're assuming a +3 WIS modifier, which you may not have (and if you only have +2, Valiant clearly wins). Let's give Holy the advantage of the +3 WIS, though. 60%...

I agree, it has some value against a big nasty. But just with Divine Challenge, you're probably forcing it to attack you anyway. Does it want -2 vs your high AC or -4 vs someone else's lower AC and DC damage? Even without Enfeebling, it's going to attack you the vast majority of the time. And if...

Actually the +1 damage and -1 to hit is almost perfectly identical vs AC 20. Let's use a longsword (+3) and give STR of 18 (+4) and WIS of 12 (+1). In reality, you'd probably have a better WIS if you're a STR-Pal, making this comparison a bit unrealistic. But just for the sake comparing ...

Maybe this was said already (didn't read the whole thread), but in addition to the "hybrid vigor" factor, there's also that elves live so long.

I'm mainly into Paladins thus far, and I have to disagree a bit with some of the rankings I've seen on these. A-/9 for Holy Strike B+/8 for Valiant Strike (when you have both Holy and Valiant, then Valiant's value goes up to A-/9) B-/6 for Enfeebling Strike B-/6 for Bolstering Strike First, I...