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Yep, now I can see where all this 'treadmill' stuff is coming from. If you actually play the way Gneech and others are describing, it's of course going to produce inconsistent nonsensical play. Would anyone really give Level 25 Epic level PCs a Level 25 DC to pick a lock on a farmer's house...

You're doing it again. See my previous post. You are once again using poor execution to dump on the mechanic. You seem to understand that 4e DCs are relative, so why is it so hard to apply that design to setting your example DCs to support the fiction? It really doesn't take some wonder DM...

Someone more versed in 4e than I can chime in on what the benefits of number inflation are (large range of bonuses gets you). I'm not positive I prefer relative DCs to fixed DCs anyway, but it annoys me that people keep misrepresenting how to play with relative DCs. In short, those ARE NOT...

DCs are subjective but they are not at all meant to be arbitrary. The DM is suppose to consider the world/genre being played in AND the PCs level to set a DC that makes sense. Why would you assign Venca's lock a Hard DC for a low level character? In most traditional D&D settings it's...

This is my interpretation of 4e as well, and in fact the reason for the scaling DCs and typical 50-60% chance of success (or whatever it is). 4e made the choice to only use game "spotlight" and rolling dice on challenges that had decent chance of success and failure. The DM is suppose to...

In an rpg with discrete, set abilities (which I consider all D&D versions to be), then there is always this tension between the set abilities and improvising. If the improvisation results are too good and too easy to access, then why have the set abilities? If they aren't good, then why...

'Galaxy of Intrigue' is the best official presentation of SC by far, and also has the best officially published real-play example of a SC.

Well, I think again it's about the upfront work. If you're using SCs in your game, I would assume your group enjoys dramatic tension in scenes, actually wants to encourage this, and has decided that SC are a helpful tool to this end. Whether to use a SC or not is often trigger by the DM but...

It was well suited to the narrative because it was constructed as such. The Diaspora system isn't a set X success/failure but rather you create a new map, relevant players, time limit, etc. specifically for each "SC" based on the narrative. Definitely a lot more work and could suffer from not...

Well, this kind of clever isn’t orthogonal to SCs at all. In fact, I would say SCs could be a useful tool to resolving that kind of clever. From some of your other posts, a lot of the inappropriateness seems to come down to when to use a SC or not. You don’t have to/shouldn’t use a SC in all...

So, I originally found this to be an interesting discussion but I think I’m lost now. What are people arguing about? I thought the idea thrown out was that certain systems through their structure can help minimize illusionism. Illusionism defined as player choices being nullified behind the...

First, kudos to Manbearcat for the real play SC post. It's good to talk actual example vs. theory. I think the play example is good but the original stated goal is not compelling enough for me. A better choice of success / failure would I think answer JamesonCourage's point as well. IMO, SC...

Yes, and I’d say a SC doesn’t just imply that the task is too significant to be completed on one skill check but actually mandates it. The group is deciding “Yes, this particular goal deserves a more involved structure to decide the outcome. We want a different kind of pacing”. I agree...

I have seen this happen when the DM and group do not shift the meaning of success/failure of a single skill check. It’s not explained well in the material, but by accepting that this is a good situation for a SC, you are also accepting that you need multiple successes (x) to reach your goal...

I am a huge fan of the concept of Skill Challenges but not a big fan of the 4e execution. The concept of “a structured extended resolution framework to resolve significant non-combat goals” is an awesome tool to have in the DM toolkit. It’s certainly doesn’t fit all (the majority?) of...

I heartily endorse Stalker0’s version! It’s a great version of X success before 3 passes. Stalker0 – any chance you do a DC chart by level for 5e?

Ok that makes sense in terms of overlap. So the intent is for the Tool Proficiencies to carve out certain activities (e.g., making a disguise). The only way you get a proficiency bonus for those activities (e.g., herbalism, forgery, cheating at games, playing an instrument, etc.) is with...

I get it. It's just shorthand. More precisely, assuming you had appropriate material or a Disguise kit would you allow a Dex (Deception) check to create a disguise? Adding your proficiency bonus due to Deception to the check. Or would Deception be limited things that don't require...

Not having been part of the playtest, when I first read the PHB, I thought the purpose of tools were A separate skill system for things that aren’t ‘worth’ a full skill and shouldn’t be competing with adventuring skills (e.g., woodworking) A way to give backgrounds/races/classes access to a...

Not so much for balance but for sanity, I'd love for someone with high system mastery and play experience to come up with a shorter list of feats that could be used as a guide for newer players. I'm not sure I'd limit choices to the list but would love to have it. Say, here are 50 (75?) feats...