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Admittedly I've come to the same conclusion about Cordon of Arrows, Conjure Barrage & Volley. I think you could spin at least some of the others as being nature-y, but those 3 are a write-off in my mind. They're not very nature-y and don't fit the theme especially well beyond the superficial...

It bugs me that Rangers, as it stands, have a source of magic that's identical to Druid, except they're weaker. I do think a Ranger's power should still be backed by a connection to nature, but an expression of it that's at least a little different from Druid would be good. So you don't have...

It's neither here nor there, but. Do they summon weapons? Does anyone, particularly? As a part of their thing? I guess Blade Warlock arguably, but. Beyond that all I can think of is Shadow Blade, Spiritual Weapon, and uhh. I guess Mord's Sword. Maybe some others, I forget. Fair, fair. That's...

I still think there's a workable solution in there somewhere! I just... Haven't arrived at it yet. If the stereotypical Ranger is/can be the Druidic mindset, I feel like it ought to be workable without just making them a Druid in all but name, mechanics and behaviour, y'know?

I just think this sort of view can be how you end up cutting the head off the Forest Spirit, and unleashing the Night-Walker in your hubris! That's definitely true of Warlocks of course, in fact I feel like it's more the standard than the deviation a lot of the time. But that's what I was...

I won't say they can't, but I do dislike it. Because that's an incomplete picture in my reckoning, it lacks a true knowing of nature's, uh. Nature. Which a Ranger should have, by virtue of being a Ranger. "Nature has it's own clarity. It lives without marking the time, dies in a way that renews...

I still dislike this sentiment! I'm not gonna say you're flat-out wrong, but. All I'll say is I personally can't imagine conceptualizing/playing a Ranger who doesn't appreciate the world they live in in that way. Unless it's specifically a part of their backstory, and overcoming that jadedness...

I see what you're saying there, but I mostly think it's a semantics thing. It's fine to say that Druids, Rangers and Barbarians have a fundamentally different relationship to their magic than Wizards or whoever, it mechanically being just a spell list like any other can just be for the players'...

Must say I'm not entirely opposed to that, that's more or less what I'm doing with my current Ranger homebrew tinkerings anyway. The only thing I've held over so far besides the general template is Feral Senses. Though I like them getting it earlier and, it also just being a bit better. Might...

Maybe this is a dumb question, but. Is there especially a reason why the Ranger can't be more this? Either through a complete retooling, or just options, or spells similar to the Smite spells, or what have you? Obviously I know WOTC won't ever do it, but. For the sake of spitballing. Even just...

I don't wanna get super into it all over again or anything, but I dislike these pigeonholes for these classes. Much as I get why they may be appealing as answers to their respective roles. That said, I do like parts of the following descriptors. Like yeah, that's a neat way of putting part of...

I hate that too! I'd at least appreciate Druidcraft.

Yeah that's what inspired it, in part.

I somewhat dislike this, even if it's true. I like this though!

Okay, sure, I think that's fair to say. I do think they should lean into it comparably to the other two, though. What might be a workable way to bring them more thematically into the Primal sphere in that case? I guess particularly, with an aspect centered around their spellcasting that's also...

I definitely agree with some of this, Ranger's virtues not being all in phyiscal nor magical power, but in their intuition and flexibility certainly. But I do still kinda dislike the comparison of Rangers to Wizards, and the idea that they pick up magic just because it's useful that tends to go...

No I know, not trying to put words in your mouth, just saying I think the difference can be more blurred in a Fantasy setting, and especially through the lens of a Ranger. True, maybe not. At least not through a generous lens. Metal and fire come from the earth n' all that. This is mostly a...

I did figure, I mostly was too! Just also yes, it is a bit of a tangent to get properly into. Though I'm sure some would be more than happy to.

Hey I'm more than happy to cut it off here. It's the magic I'm trying to get a completely satisfying answer for.

All this said, I think we're mostly getting caught up in semantics a bit. I do take your point of course, yeah Rangers do use the tools of "civilization", but I don't think civilization has to be strictly antithetical to nature from the point of view of a Ranger, because humanity is nature...