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Greek Gods. Norse Gods. I'm from the Philippines so I can say Philippine myths and legends. I like to highlight the not always, but usually part. The same goes for 3E. That's not necessarily true. Duplicate roles (especially the healer aspect and the fighter aspect) can be helpful. And...

And I think the point we're making is that D&D isn't exactly the most typical of settings, or at least its elements. Race-wise, he borrowed a lot from Tolkien. As far as "typical fantasy" goes, arguably, I'll let it pass. Mages not wearing armor, less so than Tolkien being typical fantasy. I can...

I think the point of Merric is that while Mallory is canon, Mallory doesn't cover much of Arthur's youth. Before drawing the sword from the stone, we only have vague details of Arthur. T.H. White provides us some of that detail, and the succeeding generation draws from that. Disney did for...

So now we're approximating? But either way, that still exists in 3E. And the problem with the wizard is that well, we simply have Merlin as your "heroic" wizard, and honestly, even then, he does less adventuring and more advising. And Excalibur being "the classic sort" because it's the only...

Thanks for clarifying. Alas, he pulled a George Lucas, or a le Guin, or even a Moorcock...

Once and Future King, not really. It's in a genre of its own: Arthurian Fantasy. Actually Once and Future King has more sorcery than sword, and explores more the characters of Arthurian legend than an actual quest-fest. A Wizard of Earthsea has a wizard as the main protagonist. Also breaks the...

Everything, inevitably evolves. Even Gygax's setting, Greyhawk, evolved. Naturally, you can expect some things to change in 3E (heck, it already changed in 2E...). But with regards to archetypes and the like, it's different, certainly, but in no way diminished. Artwork also evolves. Whether 3E...

Funny that. That's also mentioned in the 3E DMG (at the very least I remember it in the 3.0 one if not the 3.5 version). Even suggests you finding a tutor, paying fees, etc. =)

Uh, when you're denying that the likes of T.H. White and le Guin aren't popular, I think your argument starts falling apart. I'll be honest: I haven't heard of Book of Three. But as pointed out, just because I haven't heard of it doesn't mean it wasn't popular. T.H. White and le Guin I've read...

In a way, yes. The main characters should usually serve a purpose. But then again, some heroes go solo (i.e. Conan, Elric, Corwin, etc. -- yes, I know they hook up with parties but they spend about as much time adventuring alone as with a group), some just a pair (Fafrd and the Gray Mouser). And...

Yey, that's one less argument to quibble about. Doctor Fate

It's not that magicians can't wear armor, but honestly what's stopping them from doing so? (Unless they're fey and fear iron.) My previous post elaborated on why we don't see a lot of wizards-in-armor (mainly because they advise or order people around rather than go adventuring... Gandalf...

It's actually virtually impossible to "miss" an archetype. One could easily create a game, any game, and the players will find themselves in roles that fit Jungian philosophy in the same way that a writer might write a novel and (surprise surprise!) at least one of those characters fits an...

Yes, 1E was simpler to create characters and to play. It's like comparing a NES game with a PS2 game. However, that doesn't extend to roles or representing "literary archetypes". 3E does that as well. Storm Raven's point is that there are a lot more literary characters that fit better in 3E than...

I think the argument was lost when you were arguing that 1E was archetypal and people didn't believe that. :) A lot of things fit archetypes. I'll concede that some elements of 1E are archetypes. But so does 3E. 3E isn't less archetypal than 1E. I think what tx7321 wants to argue more about...

On the class vs point buy system, I think what you're looking for is more of the latter. You might want to check out Mongoose Publishing's True20 system which is just that: all "class" abilities are based on feats and you get to pick a feat every level. In a way, classes with special abilities...

I don't think that isn't a game system problem more than a gaming group problem. Each one had different expectations (or it could be you were the exception in that group) hence the deviation. You could find more like-minded players and end up with "your vision" of the game while still playing...

Not necessarily. From a mechanical standpoint, perhaps he's dull because he might be ineffective. But from a character standpoint, he fulfills another archetype: that of a generalist. And roleplaying wise, that could be for various reasons, whether he wants to be prepared for everything or is...

But the primary purpose of archetypes is to generally categorize something. If you take it to a certain extreme, it can degenerate into a stereotype. "Motivations beind the character" to me is an ambiguous statement. Ambiguous in what sense? Game rules? In roleplaying the character? In the...