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Oddly perhaps, queer RPGs are one of the places people seem fine with sexual content in an RPG. Thirsty Sword Lesbians fine, Horny Bards bad. Monsterhearts, good; straight fighter hooking up with the barmaid, bad. Perhaps because in order to be queer content, it has to allow for expressing...

Exactly no sex, but lots of hints and innuendo about it.

True but I can't recall any* many RPGs that reduce women to that roll... and certainly not your average D&D module. *Tell a lie, I can think of three all of which are historical based on periods and genres where women had very restricted rolls, and all the PCs are male characters. En Garde...

Well I'm happy for you but I'm British so use to titillation in virtually all my media even stuff aimed at kids. I guess you need to grow up with Pantomime and Carry on Movies.

No, not usually. Just people flirting in character.

Wow, 7th level spell Finger of Death will kill most people, a few Magic Missiles will kill most people. Killing people is simple.

Nothing wrong with that, but generally it's been between players from my experience rather than with NPCs.

There is "overrepresentation of stereotypically" fit and attractive male characters as well. It's fantasy art, not Walmart. Well that goes without saying.

Right so, by that reckoning (first part in bold) all of the art in Reasonably costumed women in fantasy art • r/ReasonableFantasy is still a serious problem, (please have a look though a couple of pages and see if anyone isn't young, slim and beautiful). The second part in bold we've shown that...

I'll have to check it out, but I imagine they were trying to invoke the feel of the classic Morgan Ironwolf illustration by Jeff Dee in 80's red box D&D.

They quality of the art improved a lot as well, and perhaps most importantly the binding. There were certainly more complaints about 1st edition falling apart than there were about the art it contained.

Thanks, I think I said in another thread that when you get to my age twenty years feels like five. I have corrected it. But it illustrates the point. I don't think it is a pervasive in TTRPGs as people might think. Maybe more so in fantasy art in general, and particularly Japanese/Chinese...

Who gets to decide what fits the theme and playstyle though? Not all women are the same, so what fits for one might not fit for another. It's it is pervasive then it shouldn't be hard to find an example. The last illustration I recall making a stir as being problematic, was the Exalted cover...

Can you give and example from a recent TTRPG product that you think it a serious problem?

Well looking at the 1st Edition V:tM the female character of Shelzza is displayed naked in six illustrations in the first two chapters, has a outfit with a slit to the waist showing her full leg and side of her bum, in another six illustrations, didn't seem to put a lot of women playing the game.

"women with affection for hire" is this the new accepted term for sex-workers now? Really love to know what you consider dressing as a "woman with affection for hire" looks like. I mean above you implied that make up itself is symbolic of it. You don't sound much like a feminist to me, if you...

Yeah it wasn't even like that in the early days of RPGs, for example Aleena the Cleric from the 1983 Red box D&D is covered head to toe in in armor. But sure women were much more often presented as a damsel in distress, than PCs and even female fighters often had exposed cleavage. Yeah they...

But if the final image is similar can not the viewer, see what they want to see in it. A straight man viewing Beyonce sees a sexual woman, a woman seeing a picture seeing like the midriff exposed Pathfinder sorcerers sees a fierce, idealised fantasy heroine.

Who says RPG aren't erotic, at least in a very soft-core sort of way. Lots of people enjoy flirtatious and titillating moments in RPGs, along with the dramatic, comical, heroics and the like.

You know they did that anyway. This is a thread about how to redo 4e not what we would have done at the time. So many people already believe everything you have just said about 4e, just embrace it, if your going to redo it now. Have it as its own thing. I think it could get an audience if...