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I was wondering this same thing. But what about their defenses and attacks? Are those the same for as other creatures for their level and role, or slightly weaker? Do minions have roles or do they go off the baseline?

18 Str and 19 Wis would make a pretty amazing melee cleric. I've never heard of anyone complaining about another guy on the front lines. If you have a high dex, stick to hide armor and skip spending a feat on scale. Get heavy shield proficiency.

guess it turned into a mini-rant Yeah, I would hate playing with skill challenges (even if the math did work out.) I despise being forced to come up with "creative uses" of skills, b/c usually it's not creative at all; it's either corny or all the player's ability to BS. "Oh, god. I have to...

"I magic missile the hostage." "You what?" "I magic missile the hostage!"

Ooooh. Situational/relative invisibility; Nice Catch. There's always an exception, isn't there? Still most of the time invisibility is ON or OFF and applies to everyone. And from reading some of the threads at gleemax, that idea seemed to trip people up; they thought of Stealth "I'm hidden...

Requiring a standard action to sustain is for use in a combat round. Outside of combat you don't move in stuttering, 6-second bursts or have defined action types- you just do stuff. I'd say as long as a wiz didn't attack or cast a spell, he could keep his invisibility up. It's a DM's call...

Part of the problem is that the stealth rules use words that everyone reads a shade differently, like: "noticed," "aware," and "hidden." Some read "aware of" as "I saw a ninja a second ago, and I'm very aware of his existence," and others, "I can see the ninja right this second." And then...

I read it as four attacks. If it were only three attacks, it would have to have an effect line that read "make a secondary attack."

Yeah, it's confusing. The "Opposed Checks" section describes two active checks: d20+mods vs d20+mods. But then under Passive checks it says: "When you’re not actively using a skill, you’re assumed to be taking 10 for any opposed checks using that skill." so unless you spend a standard...

Yeah, those guys sometimes give bunk answers. I prefer getting lots of opinions off ENWorld then deciding for myself. Something can have concealment or cover and still be in your line of sight. (page 273, example of goblin in light fog) Allies grant cover, "blocking" line of sight--...

I really am blind. More options for melee powers? But this goes beyond rogues and stealth and even this edition- ranged attackers always have the advantage of not getting hit as often. The only thing that really keeps it in check is that some of the party have to melee, otherwise the ranged...

What if a character runs around a corner into an unexplored room? Does he pick the square he's heading for before knowing the layout of the room?

Oh, you're right. I'm blind. That is pretty bad ass. However, it does reinforce my point about the designers wanting stealth to be a constant tactic. This power also looks like good way for a melee rogue to jump out of the shadows to get his CA.

Unless you use passive checks, which I believe is meant to be the standard method even if it is a little unclear in the rules. Then the rogue will succeed more often, esp. against monsters w/low perception (minions). I don't think that's bad. But some monster's will have other senses that...

But he can only do it once an encounter. Using a 6th level power. A wizard can dimension door at that level.

I thought we were only comparing ranged builds? You were talking about the rogue attacking Ref Defense --using piercing strike I assume, which is melee only. Thus the sniper can't attack Reflex.

The rogue can only use Deft Strike or Sly Flourish At-Wills w/a ranged weapon, both of which target AC. The Ranger can use twin strike (and should). No stat to damage, but any enhancement or misc. bonuses get applied for each hit. I haven't compared all the encounters and dailies yet, but...

So after reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that the rogue sniper is an intentional build option, and using stealth every round is not broken. *A rogue is, conceptually, a sneaky character. 4E is designed around the combat encounter. Thus a rogue who can use stealth in combat...

Nope. Show me some numbers. At the Heroic Tier, Sneak Attack does an average +3.5 dmg/rnd compared to Hunter's Quarry and Warlock's Curse.

I don't either. Stealth is the ranged-rogue's equivalent of the melee-rogue's maneuvering to flank.