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I'm not feeling the anger here, and I read the guy's original post. See, people have a right to be irked at a lack of internal consistancy, if that is one of the things that is important to them about the game. I don't think he's going to go climb a water tower over the crap-stats, he's making...

Except that the Orcs and Goblins were already gone before Bel took over from Zariel, if I remember my history right. Maybe even before Tiamat stepped down.

So you've got absolutely no issues with a creature that SHOULD be more powerful than another, being weaker? And we're not talking Remorhaz vs Frost Worm here. We're talking about something that is the equivilent of making Great Wyrm Dragons weaker than say...Very Old Dragons. It doesn't make...

I said 'please'.....would the conotations of 'complain' be better than snivel?

Ok, having said that, I ask, WHY? Do you never introduce NPCs that your players can't beat? There are no wise old men in taverns, full of magical might should they be messed with? No brave retired paladin kings on the throne? You admit that it is silly with solars and balors being very real...

Because I use so much necromancy in my design and games as a player and DM, I found Libre Mortis of better use to me than LoM. However, both books could have used about 30-100 more pages. LoM had some great flavor, but it was a little weak on the stats/mechanics. To keep this on topic, an...

And another thing, for those who want to pose the "but what if there are NO 54 HD pit fiends/60HD balors? Even if there aren't advanced fiends, you need to consider what would happen if say...FIVE balors decided to kick Demogorgon's two headed arse. Or if a pit fiend grabbed his two buddies...

Well, this thread has been quite informative. Perhaps I should have started with Shemmy's recent summary and saved myself an hour. Since I'm arguing where demons and their lords should be on the other thread, I'll not bother the folks here with common sense. From what I've seen, I'm going to...

Keep in mind, this same Lolth was considered a god in the 1ed Deities and Demigods, along with Orcus and Demogorgon, if I remember correctly. 1ed, like I have said, had planar rulers as demi to lesser gods only slightly less powerful than the regular gods. The one thing you could definitely...

But then this brings up the question, does 'use' matter? Would you advocate that same concept be applied to gods? Should greater gods have a CR of, oh say, 24, and then have a method where you can 'scale them up' to keep them at least a level higher than the party cleric? What about high...

Ok...so you what you are advocating is that the FLAVOR of all monsters and such be reduced to 20th level as well. So that the powerful dragons should NOT be written as more powerful than CR 20 (with advancement allowing those who wish to play epic to use dragons in their campaigns as well)...

Please don't whine and snivel when I make generalized comments or suggestions in the form of a statement. It is immature and petty.

So....the later dragon age categories. Wyrm, great wyrm, in a few cases even Ancient....they are worthless, right? Or should be squeezed down into CR 21ish for you? If you want a 20th level encounter with a demon, use a balor. Same as you use a lesser dragon category for a lower CR. If you...

And here's the coup de grace. Demons are scalable from CR 1. Manes, dretch, etc. They all exist at the lower rungs of the demon ladder. If you want low level demon encounters, use low level demons. If you want mid level encounters, use vrocks and hezrou. If you want high level encounters...

If that is the case, then they should be scalable from CR 1, by your own logic.

I don't judge play styles, and I don't care for you suggesting that I do. I am judging a design style, catering to a particular play style and not the others. And from a design perspective, it is stupidity to make a specific NPC weaker so that some people can fight them. It is a poor, short...

I'm sort of in Shemeska's camp, although I do believe such things as 'concepts' can be killed. I believe gods can die, and mythology agrees with me. I believe cosmic entities such as demon princes can die, and Orcus agrees with me. To me, Shem summed it up perfectly when she was irked about...

I'll second my dear 'cousin' on this one. The ELH needs the biggest revision. The psionics handbook was excellently redone...I'd like to see something on that magnitude of improvment. U_K, you are one of my allies in the old "keep BaB progression minus extra attacks" issue right? Fighters...