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LOLOLOL. Love your work. 😂 But no.

Yeah.... This sort of thing would need a specific concept, story or power source in order to make sense for me, not just "because I'm an archer"

I would support this (and I play casters exclusively!). I think it would support more meaningful class & character distinction. One way to do this would be if they tied this into the subclass, eg the divination school subclass gets less access to other schools, perhaps some sort of major...

Some great ideas here! I especially love : I would allow those at my table. Yes, yes, I know, it would be better if they were baked into the rules, but right now they need DM buy-in, and I'd buy-in 😁 Not so sure about some of these though.... Those would need more concrete concept support...

I thought this was kind of the point of this discussion. If a player wants to play a non magic martial type, they're not going to choose an EK, Rune Knight, Arcane Trickster, Storm Herald, etc and would go for something more like BM, Assassin, Beserker, etc. For those players, how do we ensure...

Exactly. And that work is about designing / defining a concept that makes sense for it. Having The Mountain be able to fly doesn't fit to me unless there's more to it. Yep, this sounds great to me. Agreed but as you say that fits for a large and /or strong char type. Having this available to...

Agreed! We do have some of those sorts of differentiating aspects in the game, eg wizards don't get much healing for example, but they're often inconsistent or insufficient, eg sorcerers get mass polymorph but not shape change or true polymorph. Subclasses also go somewhat towards creating some...

Yes, but what sort of martial? "Martial" is a very broad bucket term, it's not a character concept. How are you going to discuss the mechanics of what a char can do, vs what it should be able to do, if you don't have a concept to relate it to ? Should a martial be able to fly ? Should a...

Perhaps we're now talking at cross-purposes then? Going back to the OP: Both of these snippets seem to me to indicate that this isn't a discussion of mechanics, it seems like a question of character concepts and balance issues of magic characters. What are the specific mechanics you think are...

Well.... The game allows them to max their Cha & Int, and they can roleplay how they wish, so Genius, Philanthropist & Playboy are all well within their grasp. And Billionaire sounds like a background choice, so you might need your DM on board for that one, but I would want to be consulting my...

Ahh, thanks 😁

Does he? This reminds me of the exchange in one of the marvel movies. Thor says to Iron Man, "Take away your suit and what are you?", and Stark says "Genius. Billionaire. Philanthropist. Playboy". It's the perfect response. Why? Because the story of iron Man is so much more than his magic...

OK, that's a pretty reasonable stance I reckon. I could get behind that. I love that one too! Although in my mind, I don't put monks in the same bucket as fighters, rogues & barbarians as far as being non magical martial. Ki isn't far from either magic or The Force to me, it's plenty magical...

Ok, this is helpful to understand your position. So, if I understand correctly, you are saying here that these are some of the sorts of things that you would like to be available to non-magic martials, but you would prefer to see improvements, such as: more of them, earlier, more relevant, more...

I'm struggling to understand the point here, I think because I'm not sure of the context this statement is in. I come back to, some players don't like magic characters, at least not all the time. Sometimes they don't want the character to be inherently magical, but are happy to be lit up with...

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. All of those things seem awesome to me, so I'm not sure what the problem is ? Are you saying non-magic martials are fine because they can already do these sorts of amazing non-magical things ? With the exception of the monk, all the examples you...

Agreed. The only guiding light I can think of is that if the players and the DM are committed to making it happen then it can happen. I think that actually means we're in furious agreement then :) How about 18th level Champion ? They regen 9-10 hps per round if below half health, forever...

It isn't. It's just not what everyone wants to be their character concept for every character they ever play. It really is this simple. I know, I know, it seems strange to me that not every player wants every character they ever play to be magic. Personally, I can't understand WHY they would...

Erm.... Okay. Let's take a look. I listed the sort of things I was thinking in the post above. I didn't list them originally as I didn't think we were going to get down to minutia as I thought this was a pretty hand wavy kind of discussion. But yes, I did assume some basic magic items for an...

Fair point. I was just going with normal 5e D&D which is that magic items are a normal thing. I was doing it all in my head so might not have been 100% accurate with everything but then, I didn't think this was a thing where being accurate was the point. In my head I was using a L17 champion...