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I agree with you. But actually, I think when the rules talking about "noticing a threat" in combat that it is meant to also refer to non-threatening allies. In the Hiding side-box PHB p. 177 it says : "In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of...

Here's the definition of Stealth from the PHB (emphasis added): "conceal yourself from enemies, slink past guards, slip away without being noticed, or sneak up on someone without being seen or heard." I agree that AoO are an issue .... I've been discussing with the other players online this...

New definition and FAQ! Definition of "Stealth" : Being stealthy represents the attempt to move into hiding undetected by opponents after doing a Stealth skill check Are being Hidden and being Stealthy the same thing? No, because Stealth represents the attempt to move into hiding without...

Here's the latest version of our complete doc: Surprise & Hiding Rules Interpretation Determining Surprise and Start of Combat The DM determines if it is possible for the party to hide for surprise at the start of combat : The DM determines the circumstances under which hiding is possible...

One other note - looking at the Assassin archetype for the Rogue, their Assassinate ability says this: "In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit." That implies that assassination doesn't automatically mean you have surprised the creature, only that...

So far, that would be governed by this FAQ we've come up with: Can I initiate surprise by deceiving an adjacent opponent into believing I'm actually an ally and concealing my dagger thrust as I attack? No, because you would have to be hidden to initiate surprise, and if you were able to...

Most of the work has come from players during this process coming up with hypothetical scenarios and asking "But what about this?" Better to work through a consensus on those outside of play sessions than to have a player feel their point of view as ignored when the DM decides something...

You're not surprised by some combatants but not others because surprise is a binary state : you're either surprised for the first round or you aren't. Nothing in that definition of surprise says you're surprised by some creatures and not others. You are, however, hidden from some creatures and...

Two more FAQs: Can I initiate surprise by deceiving an adjacent opponent into believing I'm actually an ally and concealing my dagger thrust as I attack? No, because you would have to be hidden to initiate surprise, and if you were able to conceal your attack this way for surprise purposes...

And a new definition: Definition of "Surprise" : Surprise is the state where a creature momentarily freezes and loses their turn in combat because of being startled by an attack when they were not alert because they didn't perceive there was any possibility of being attacked.

Also, a new FAQ: Couldn't the rules mean that surprise is only determined by comparing Stealth versus passive Perception only for those creatures who are hiding, and not considering those who chose not to hide? No. The rules state that if neither side of a combat tries to be stealthy they...

More discussions ensued among our group! I brought up the insights of all of you here - thank you for your help! I think we've arrived at a final interpretation of the Hiding rules that we all agreed on in our group. We punted a bit, as we went with a more operational definition, and based on...

Actually, though, I think I'm in disagreement with what you say surprise is meant to simulate. I think surprise is meant to simulate an ambush - characters lying in wait and jumping out to attack. There's numerous cases where the word Ambush is tied to surprise in the Monster Manual, from the...

I understand and I think that's a fine approach. Just to frame what my group is doing, we're trying to figure out what our interpretation of Rules as Written is, at least for this subset of the rules ... not only to come to a consensus on what we believe the designers meant by the rules, but...

You know, the reluctance I'm having to adding location to our definition of Hiding, is that the word "location" doesn't appear anywhere in the side-box on Hiding on p. 177 of the PHB. Words I do see are "signs of your presence", "can't be seen", "make noise", "signs of passage", "stay alert"...

Here's our updated FAQ list - some items have been added, and after discussions we've changed our opinion on some others: When does combat start? Combat starts when two opposing parties are aware or are about to become aware of the presence of each other, and the DM judges that at least one...

It's not a confrontational setting - my group has been meeting for over 7 years, and I've DM'd off and on for over half that time. But, we're re-examining how we've played in the past and trying to get a complete understanding of the rules as written. The document we're coming up with is a...

I'm engaging with conversation among my players in my group where I've DM'd off and on for 7 years, so it's not a matter of cracking down (I don't run that type of campaign), but of trying to come to a common agreement on the exactly what the rules are intended to mean. Currently we have this...

I think if the second sentence giving the surprise determination rule were commentary, it would have been made more plain. Say if that sentence started with "For example, the DM might compare...". But it asserts this as an imperative: "the DM compares..." I think what the first sentence...

The second section about the DM determining the circumstances that allow a character hide is Rules as Written though - you can find it in the errata for the PHB (or in the text of the second edition): Hiding Errata (PHB p. 177). The following sentence has been added to the beginning of this...