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There is a ninja core class in the book Complete Adventurer. Whether he'll like it or not or whether he'll want to pick it over a monk are different questions

Overall I think it's been clarified that much of this debate can be left to the area of personal preference and these type of interactions can be resolved in whatever manner the group wants. The key is just to have that resolution mechanism discussed and in the open from the beginning...

To me, CHA based skills seem to be the special case. A RPG player who happens to make his life as an architect doesn't automatically get to act as if they had 10 ranks in Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering). An intramural swimmer doesn't get to let their character bypass a raging river by...

The thing is, a lack of skill in developing in-character dialogue rapidly is not limited to newbies. I started playing RPGs over 10 years ago and like playing characters with a strong identity and background and speaking in first person to add flavor. The problem arises when there is a 1st...

The thing is, Fusangite, there are DMs who DO feel CHA based skills can be ignored in the game. To quote some examples in this thread: (Emphasis added by me in editing) So, we see three different DMs whose playstyle encourages the removal of a CHA-based die roll when RPing a dialogue...

My claim is not that "anything is believable, just make a check". My claim is that a premise of a lie described at Level 2 abstraction (see post #165) is sufficient to determine the circumstance modifier (See post #182) and the DM can determine success or failure at that point. The choice of...

I am aware that DnD isn't Monopoly, but I used the analogy to highlight several points: 1. DnD is a game, and all players are cooperating to enjoy themselves. One player is granted by all of the other players more authority to arbitrate, but in the end, the DM is just another individual at...

LostSoul- I have an honest question for you: What about DMs that have segments of the campaign world that move on without the PCs decisions? Say the party stumbles on orcs laying waste to a farm plantation. When the local paladins hear of this, they launch a crusade against the orcs to drive...

Nyaricus are posts 3-9 supposed to link to anything? I'm just seeing plain text...

Alright, well then boring for who? You the DM or the player? RPGs are a collabaritive endeavor between players and DM alike. If I have fun from plot development and contributing to the development of your game world, but am just not proficient at Level 3 abstraction for social actions, why...

They were more setting specific IIRC. One place fast-talk can be found is in the Dark Sun supplement Dune Trader detailing how to play a fast-talking merchant class. I believe the intimidate proficiency was in the main setting rulebook. Both were also in the Spacefarer's Handbook for...

The problem with this point, Mallus, is that you think players like myself are advocating the: "I bluff" "Roll" "You succeed" level of abstraction. I am doing no such thing. Let's put it in three levels of abstraction with relevent examples: Combat: LEVEL 1: PC - I hurt the orc. DM - How...

Well, there were both proficiencies/skills for Fast-talk and for intimidate (the latter let you select STR or CHA as the prime ability, a common gripe). For everyone that feels that better roleplaying is brought through removing social mechanics, I feel you're downplaying the ROLE part of it...

Well, sorry for the thread hijack, but it fits with the smarts vs. intelligence debate the same way there's a difference between proficient character dialogue and the charisma stat (the mechanical representation of the dialogue's persuasiveness). Asking a player to solve a puzzle in their head...

But Don, do you see my point at all? If you even use the words "tell me exactly what you say," I'm assuming you are using that information to make a ruling on my success in that action. If I know that is the way you perform as DM, I might not want to play. So why aren't you pasting that as a...

What is your motivation for wanting your players to fear you? I don't want to play with a DM that wants me fearing him. I want to play with a DM that wants to cooperate to create an artificial reality with interesting plots populated by dynamic characters. I want to play with a DM that treats...

Then let's go back to your example: My problem is the exactly worded part. The basic roleplayer has defined the lie he's choosing. Whether in his exact wording he's stammering, or nervous, or otherwise portaying the lie he's chosen to a sufficient believability is not relevant. He's given...

Asking for a specific lie's wording is the same as asking which SPECIFIC long sword he's swinging. Describing the premise of a lie, such as "I'm the guard's superior," or "I'm Lord Valiant's cousin," or "I came here to warn you that your girlfriend's sleeping with Bill the Other Bouncer," are...

The problem I have is that most DMs don't state in a house rule up-front in clear english: "CHA-based skill mechanics will be irrelevant to PC to NPC reactions. As DM I will arbitrate that solely based on the dialogue you can produce." Instead, they wait until the smooth-talking character I've...

How much of a stretch is it for a player to say "I attack the orc with my sword" as opposed to "I whip my arm sideways with a overhand grasp of the hilt and reach into the orcs bare ribcage." Do you demand the second level of detail in combat in order to pick the orcs AC? If not, why does the...