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There's a difference though, between what we were doing and what you're conveying. In my scenario, we the players drove our own game into that house and made our own fun out of exploring it as we roleplayed, and the Keeper met that, not by just conjuring something ad hoc, but in maintaining...

It will never not be amusing to see people who take great issue with these kinds of games be completely perplexed by the idea of free form roleplay. Its honestly kind of sad, because it tells me you folks have never actually been fully immersed into a gameworld. One of my fond memories of...

Sure in the same way that we don't have to be playing a game. RPGs are not just conversations, and that false assertion goes to the heart of what I'm talking about when I describe PBTA style games as having shallow gameplay loops. Yes we're exploring a gameworld. Thats how it works. As I...

I can't say I used it much for the game it was designed for, but I fully endorse Arora: Age of Desolation. Its primarily a 5e setting book, but what I adore it for is its exceedingly clever, it simplistic, take on Exploration and Survival rules, which I so dearly love they formed the basis for...

Ie, you're talking about agency, as I stated. Ah, so the reason you think you're not talking about agency is that you're arbitrarily creating tiers in whats meant by "choices", and the choices as we recognize in what agency is are some lesser form. But sure, lets run with the premise that...

The question itself doesn't work, was my point, as we shouldn't be approaching them as though they're competing. You might be lost in context here. I can't be bothered back track atm but someone was talking about the idea being consistently brought up in these kinds of discussions, and my OP...

This is a good example of when using Wikipedia as a source goes wrong, because Wikipedia blurbs aren't going to give you the appropriate context to accurately discuss a given concept, particularly when the specific Wikipedia page itself is explicitly about conventional writing, and not game...

Well that depends entirely on why the Players are travelling somewhere. Sometimes, they might just be out in the Outlands specifically to screw around. Its a sandbox game, the adventure is what you make of it. There will be things going on in the world that will spill out into grand...

There wasn't much of a difference at all, given I was running the Green Knight and my players somehow managed to not ask the Fox any of the expected questions before giving up and killing it. In Agon we weren't getting much more than what the Signs basically tell you verbatim they're about...

Well its not like there can't be multiple perpindicular issues at the root of why these games were created. Its just in terms of why the tyrant GM argument is reoccurring is because defensive arguments keep pointing at it as the problem. Thats as true here as it still is when you read the...

Not that these questions were pointed at me, but its not really a matter of who it affects more, but of how the game itself as a collective experience is affected. Its both. Game feel matters.

I've played both. And fyi, it is very poor form to root your counter arguments in accusing others of lacking knowledge. You can just point out what you think is an inconsistency and we can hash it out. The phrase yes, the idea no. You shouldn't be trying to act like that isn't what you were...

A very long winded way of repeating that players can just make things up and the GM isn't allowed to poopoo their bright ideas, something that is so innocuous the only thing you have to do to add it to any game is just to have a GM who isn't being anti-social. Plus in terms of how this speaks...

The former is exactly the sort of thing I was going for with what I called Oracles, that I now call Events, where players will potentially roll prompts that they can then riff off of and combine with each others Events, leading not just to a generally interesting travel sequence, but to some...

Yeah see you're not even paying attention to who you're talking to. Level headed criticism with a dearth of supporting arguments is condemnation now? Again, I think you're conflating 3 or 4 people here. I would say first identify who you believe you're speaking to and then calmly discuss the...

When your this emotionally attached to something you kind of betray the notion that you're being objective in how you discuss it. You'll notice that neither I nor anyone else on this general "side" of the discussion has gone out of their way to denounce any criticism of whatever game. You're...

The conclusion pops up so consistently because when certain folks try so very hard to justify and prove the value of their preferred design, they inevitably drift into arguments that, intentionally or not, point to the tyrant GM. Its hard not to see that as the root issue when arguments start...

Oh for sure. Thats something that I think is actually very important for the kinds of story telling that you still want to have, even in a fully gameplay driven experience. To use a video game, the environmental storytelling we see in the original Halo (in particular the Library) wouldn't work...