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Then I don't see the problem that necessitates the discourse in question, where we treat hypothetical Player as though their entire experience is being downtrodden but then turn around and say "oh but they're actually having fun!". See thats kinda backwards given you're stating the problem is...

A lot of where this topic has gone just reminds me of why I feel the entire hobby is trying way too hard to tell stories and has really lost sight of how best to use games as a story medium. Id honestly go as far as the no doubt controversial statement that all of this Story Now stuff is on the...

At some point though, we just hit the thing Im always referencing. Its okay to not actually like RPGs, and one should try to identify what they do like, and do that instead. The hobby can't be everything to everyone, otherwise it becomes nothing to everyone. The implication of a self-imposed...

I would say that people being unwilling to GM is rooted in the same issue. There is a reason after all I am a huge proponent of treating the GM as a player, and emphasizing their experience as being centered around fun, and not just a bunch of work. It is what? I'm not certain what you're...

Idk, that to me seems more like an issue of consent and an issue of the GM potentially biting off more than they need to just to play a game. Like, for one, there shouldn't be any case where a GM making up their own setting should be causing issues with the players. Thats just an etiquette...

I think a lot of things we think of as being the GMs problem mostly stem from trying nothing and having no other ideas when it comes to the expectation of the players actually knowing the rules, how to put those rules into practice, and, I think most importantly, coming to the table with more...

The thing is though that feedback loops are what makes a given game fun. If there's no gameplay, you're not playing a game, and gameplay is built from feedback loops. As said, preferences are a matter of taste in terms of whether or not one overall loop is better than another. But you cannot...

One example of this for non-combat scenarios that I've fallen in love with is the concept of the Party cooking a meal together. Mechanically, this specific activity places no limits on the Party combining their collective Crafting Budgets together, so they can all share and make their whole meal...

My nitpick is that strictly speaking it was never necessary to build a whole new kind of game just to support this. Its been one of my design tenants to basically try to, at all times, make the optimal play indistinguishable from roleplaying, which where successful goes a good bit of the way...

Sure. What I'm specifically and objectively referring to is a given games overall feedback loop, which for RPGs is easily identifiable in what its overall procedure of play is. I look at that and try to evaluate how much gameplay occurs before it loops back onto itself, and what, if any...

Something that could be noted is that two people can describe the same general fact as both a positive and a negative. For example, where I could describe X game as lacking compelling gameplay and being very shallow, another person could describe the same actual "thing" about the game as being...

I don't think this needed a whole new topic.

As Im apparently not the only one who logs out to see what other people said, Ill just note that if one thinks the phrase "Story S*******" doesn't also refer to games like Lasers or Feelings, I have a beach in Kansas for sale for the low low price of a million dollars.

While deeply uncharitable, I don't think its entirely out of pocket when some people say that things like PBTA basically aren't games. For a lot of the people, the G in RPG matters, and from a mechanical standpoint, PBTA type games do not have very robust or compelling gameplay to engage with...

For me its just the same kind of thing when people fall over themselves to make the point that PBTA isn't a system. They're not incorrect, but its such a pointless thing to make a fuss over, particularly when everyone involved knows whats being asked if someone asks "Whats the best PBTA out...

Anecdotally, I've only ever seen these terms become a point of contention when used to refer to PBTA types when those kinds of games are coming under critique. Take of that what you will.

Something I intend to do for my game is introducing what I've dubbed the "Campaign Builder". With the way my Questing system works (ie, living world that will readily act on its own), its capable of delivering conventional AP-like storylines without infringing on the pure sandbox of the game...

I suggest you take your own advice, given you're both projecting something I never said while simultaneously missing some important context. As I've said to you before, you should ask questions if you don't know what someone means. Case in point, this is a very shallow surface level...

I'm still of the opinion that ultimately what pretty much this entire topic is arguing about, but not really getting their teeth into, is that this is just different variants on the improv game, specifically an elaborate and long term narrative improv game, where the various improv players have...

Its certainly in the same train of thought, but there is a key difference in that immersive sims are limited in scope, and most don't do living worlds (reactive narratives aren't the same thing). And as far as the GM goes, its worth questioning if this, supporting a reactive gameworld, is...