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And anecdotally I once already shared my experience with trying to force stories in games. I quickly burn myself out in Kerbal Space Program trying to do it, but if I just let myself play, I'll quickly burn another 2000 hours on it. Same thing happens with cRPGs. A million restarts on Skyrim...

And what are those aims? Having a specially curated plot thats simultaneously as compelling as any tv show but also doesn't feel like you're being railroaded? Shouldn't have to be pointed out that that is patently ridiculous, and no amount of "collaborative storytelling" shtick says otherwise...

Sure. We just call it railroading and fudging; forms of blocking in roleplaying. People don't often like to think of these games like that, but I can't help but keep sounding that bell. All of these problems are improv problems, and just as easily solved. Thats the peculiar thing about this...

The question is is how prevalent is it actually that GMs are like that? Tetra might be floating an unreasonable assumption of neotrad people, but the thing is is that what I just quoted is also a rather uncharitable assumption thats levied at trad people. Anecdotally, Ive never actually...

For whatever reason a lot of RPG discourse simply refuses to be simple and to the point. Granted, I personally can get very verbose, but thats also reflective of the amount of thought I put into my ideas; I can't boil them down to a sentence because they aren't 1 sentence ideas. Can't really...

Ah, but thats the rub! Game stories are worthy enough to stand on their own as a "new" form of narrative. New is in quotes because we've been observing the potential for about as long as we started doing competitions in general, we just don't conventionally recognize those narratives in the...

Probably like not playing a game. Thats pretty much the whole thing behind why I've said in the past that game mechanics inherently tell stories. You can't really escape it. I recently (surely due in no way to this thread lol) got a hold of Zubeks Elements of Game Design, and I actually really...

Its often players doing things like this that result in entirely new genres being born. Theres a pretty clear heritage from DayZ all the way through to Fortnite and then to Tarkov, and surely on to whatever the new hotness is in extraction shooters. And as it happens, it happens with rpgs too...

You don't need to know what the story will be to tell it. Improv is still storytelling. And fyi, but blindly accusing people of not having played a game is a weak argument predicated on your frustration and inability to convince. I have played Blades and numerous other FITD and PBTA based...

Seconded.

Yes, thats what roleplaying is. I didn't say RP couldn't result in an emergent story. What do you believe storytelling is? I'll take from Wikipedia: Improvisation is the key word in that definition as it relates to RPGs. Important to note here too, regarding your stated examples, that...

Issue with that is that the games that adhere to the idea are still bound by the same kinds of storytelling; they just offload it onto the rules system, with may be some allowance for improv to tie all the bits together. You can't really play a game expecting a story to happen as part of it...

Should be reminded that GNS is more or less defunct, unless we're going with the nebulous intuitive interpretations rather than what was originally described by these terms, in which case it'd be pertinent to establish what people think of the terms in that regards. Id instead, though, offer...

Id wager the issue has more to do with what Zubek notes the model doesn't (necessarily) cover: It doesn't detract from the model, theres just more elements that go into it that aren't rooted in mechanic or system design. And I'd also wager that most game designers, even in tabletop spaces...

You can summarize play to find out with the much less pretentious phrase "stop cheating and trust the game". Also conveniently removes the allusion to emergent storytelling, which is definitely not what Bakers or Edwards games were conducive towards aside from the obligate improv inherent to...

Don't design an uninteresting game. Kinda funny, but its more or less the answer. Or at least a answer, anyway. Ive said before that games, even stripped down to their bare mechanics, should be compelling and fun. Many times you'll still need some additional layers of content to make for a...