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EN5ider magazine recently created a blue mage-style class for exactly that purpose!

He ends up saving the kingdom because she has a special destiny. Not generally the case in S&S. They make their own legend (as told after the fact, of course). As I said before, I expect most PCs will be above average in some respect, just not so much that they exist beyond the statistical range...

Amusingly enough, a classic narrative device. Explains why it cN be hard to accept for some folks.

You'd be surprised how many people place a higher priority on their own play at their table than they do on the play of folks with whom they'll never play, and disagree with on several important points.

Oh no! I had happily forgotten that monstrosity existed! Now it'll be back in my head!

That's true, but to be honest I don't think a ton of people are all that interested in switching assumptions of play, so beyond acknowledging their existence there doesn't seem to be much more to say at this point, especially after 11k+ posts. The lines have been largely drawn.

I wouldn't worry about it. Different expectations of play mean that this circle is extremely unlikely to be squared. This part of play is IMO too different for both sides to reach a comfortable place.

This I think is why some people don't like fail forward. Your expectations of play are different. I know this seems obvious, but for some reason we all want to re-litigate "my preference is different from your preference" over and over ad infinitum.

Agreed. Superheroes are the only exception to my general preference in this area.

Can you imagine a situation where, "the story we've been making together is ruined" is not really the concern at the table? That there are people who have other priorities in their play?

Also a possibility. It's really up to the players what they do. Kinda the whole point, for me at least.

First of all, the players, if they want to know how I arrive at my decisions and don't trust that I'm doing it fairly, they can ask and I'll tell them I have a table upon which I roll. Second of all, IMO things the players have no reason to know about should be mysterious until that condition...

I think I accepted this point a while back.

I never said my preference is the pinnacle of awesome design, but it is my favorite of the various options, and my car drives just fine.

Of course, my problem is that D&D when I started playing it was more sword & sorcery and less high fantasy, and I still prefer to play my D&D-like games that way, so the whole "D&D is high fantasy" thing has never sit right with me.

Yes. It means if you want to play the game "correctly", you have to do it their way and abide by their constraints. There's no GM discretion on what to do, just on how. At least, that's how it's always read to me.

I have tables I can roll on to determine who's in a random house. They're neat.

That is an enormous difference to some of us. The big one, as it were.

These things happen in a fantasy world not running on narrative causality and the emotional lives of a handful of people. Sorry if that's a little harsh, but I'm getting very tired of this.

From what I'm hearing from some folks here, it applies to everyone whether they realize it or not.