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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Here are two different d6 rolls that happen in AD&D: *The roll to open a stuck dungeon door. *The roll to determine whether or not a person (or party) is surprised. The first roll is made when a player declares that their character is trying to force open a stuck door. At that point, in the...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    100% this. I mean, I've actually missed phone calls because I was fumbling for my keys (or, in more contemporary times, because I'm fumbling for my mobile phone in my backpack). It's a thing. But according to posters in this thread, on those occasions there was no causal connection between (i)...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    But this is ridiculous, and is why @hawkeyefan feels he's taken crazy pills. It's obvious that a failure to open the door may be the cause of people dying in a house fire. That is why there are workplace health and safety laws, building codes, coronial inquest, manslaughter laws, etc...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Yes, it is possible for different causes to produce similar effects. But if the cause of missing the phone call is that you couldn't open the door, that's the cause. The fact that, under different circumstances, something different might have caused you to miss the phone doesn't change that...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Non-linearity in respect of consequences, like you describe in your last sentence, is pretty straightforward. It's bringing onto the "stage" some of the innumerably many parts of the fictional world that have not yet been described and talked about at the table. Non-linearity in respect of...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I guess that's one possibility . . .
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Here are some quotes from the Manifesto: they [the GM] must adhere to the fictional world created before play begins. . . . When you as GM are struck with the urge to alter the fictional world outside of your diegetic methods, resist the temptation! As you change the fictional world, you deny...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Is the chess board a component of the game chess? Until you tell me what the context is for your question - are you stocking a game shop? theorising about the nature of rules? undertaking an anthropological study on game play? - there is no answer to your question.
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Agreed. I have my own views about this manifesto, but @EzekielRaiden's objection is, in my view, groundless.
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Are you going to tell us what rules you use to establish valid action declaration in the intent + task RPGs that you play? Or in any of those whose rules you're familiar with?
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Ron Edwards made the same point over 20 years ago: 1. The number of textual rules involved, as well as how much the rules must be consulted during play, are irrelevant. "Narrativist? Must be rules-light!" is just one of those little humps to get over. 2. Focusing on single Techniques to define...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Are you actually reading the examples?
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I think this will depend on what the game is. But the PbtA games I'm familiar with - mostly AW and DW - say when a player-side move is triggered, in accordance with the core rule "if you do it, you do it". Apocalypse World doesn't have a move that is triggered when you try and pick a lock -...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I think @hawkeyefan's point is simpler than you are making it out to be. It is not a point about game play; it is a simple point about cause and effect. The burning building example is the same as my ringing phone and pouring rain examples: *I wasn't able to open the door, and therefore was...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    It was one of a billion things I didn't talk about. Here is what I said, in the "initial post": This post is not mysterious, nor especially complicated. It says that: *Some players are content with getting to decide only very thin descriptions, focused on bodily movements (like "I flip the...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I'm saying what I actually said. No it's not. My statement was that there is some thing, other than the mere fact of the lock being opened, that the player is hoping to be the case. I'm not an expert on logically formalising hopes - it probably involves some sort of modal logic. But ploughing...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Sure. This is the same as, when I was a child and woke up hoping to find a wonderful new Lego set at the bottom of my bed (because I'd dreamed it) and didn't, I hadn't woken up as I hoped. This tells us nothing, though, about what it is reasonable for a human being to hope for; nor what...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Right. This is more-or-less the same as what I just posted in reply to @FrogReaver.
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Yes. I said nothing about what such "other descriptions" might be, how they are to be formulated consistently with the rules of the game, etc. I didn't say that. As per what I wrote just above, I said nothing about how permissible action declarations are framed.
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