Search results

What the fresh hell? You asked for problems unequal optimization makes at the table, and I pointed at a few I've actually seen, and you needed to come back as though it was some sort of personal attack? You did get that I'm not particularly opposed to players optimizing, yes? You did get that I...

Obviously we have different experiences and opinions and preferences, here, and I'm not going to try to argue you out of yours (and you don't seem to be trying to argue me out of mine, sincerely thank you). I will say I think the players at the tables I'm GMing are thinking about the game a good...

How is discrepancy in optimization a problem, outside of jerk behavior? There's the en passant steamrollering of someone else's niche-toes, which will bother some people more than others, and be more of a problem in some rulesets than others, but it's real. There's the old "what challenges the...

We probably have different opinions on this--which is fine--but my take on 5e is the problems you're talking about are probably more a thing for people that A) came from 3.Pathfinder and/or B) are very online, and see the ... buildy builds. I've always seen 5e as like a streamlined 3e, with much...

In principle, I agree there shouldn't be a cap on how effective a legal PC can be. In practice, a large enough discrepancy can be a problem, even if no one's being a jerk.

And I think there's a good argument that D&D 5e was kinda specifically not to be optimized. I mean, there are some choices that will end up being better than others, but they're pretty easy to suss out--it takes almost willful ignorance (or really bad ability score rolls, if you roll--and why on...

He does seem like a worst-case scenario in many ways, yes. Setting out to optimize hard as GM, then complaining when your players do, is ... pretty crap behavior, I think. While he seems personally impervious to explanation, I do think it's worth pushing back, because there's nothing about...

Yeah. Talking about your own experiences/psychology is almost certainly fine, though probably not generalizable (and you should keep that part in mind). Talking about what you've observed directly can be fine, depending. Talking about something you've clearly never observed in any way you...

My take--and this is just my take, I'm not speaking for anyone else, here--is that having people who are optimized to different extents can be a problem, and it's more likely to be a problem than if everyone is optimized to the same extent. This is especially the case if someone is kinda en...

Once again your experience is functionally the opposite of just about everyone else's--and you are conflating "spotlight hog" with "optimizer," when they're not inherently the same. If people say their experience of optimizers is that they A) don't necessarily hog the spotlight and B) thrive on...

I've left tables when everyone else was clearly enjoying the play but it was driving me kinda nuts (in a bad way). I have persistently said, I think, that I was the problem at those tables, not everyone else.

Yeah, ideally you can enjoy the game, whether you win or lose. I didn't understand the OP or the conversation to be about enjoyment, as such. I think whatever enjoyment people get from games might as well in most cases be called "fun," though I agree it's not exclusive to games and it's probably...

I think the last sentence is the important thing, though there is a large middle space between your two options, and there's nothing inherent to optimization and/or roleplaying that makes them mutually exclusive. Not a major disagreement, just a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

I run open-ended games, myself, though I don't self-describe them as "sandboxes," and the players explicitly set goals, and at least some of them explicitly talk about "winning" and "losing," and some of the TRPGers I know definitely play not to lose (I've seen this called "turtling"). In the...

Of course, narrative and game aren't mutually exclusive. The PCs' goals may well be narrative in origin and/or nature, they might in fact be derived from the story and background and world-building. The players might well use--probably have reason to expect to use--the rules of the game to make...

My experience is that I end up adapting to the parties I'm running for; having an optimizer or three in the party isn't any different from having more players, as far as the mustering opposition part of GMing, anyway. But then, I make up stuff specifically for the parties I'm running for, based...

No worries, that wasn't intended to say you should have seen it, much more in the way of apologizing for repeating myself. Sorry if it came across badly.

As I said, in the post immediately before yours, I think the players being able to decide on their goals is one of the primary attributes of good TRPG play, and I think not achieving those goals must be possible for achieving those goals to have any meaning, and I think achieving those goals or...

I think the idea that the players can decide what their goals are is one of the primary attributes of good TRPG play. Upthread @Pedantic called it something like "the players setting their own victory conditions," and I think there's a strong implication that if there are "victory conditions"...

The idea of winning/losing at TRPGs lines up pretty well with my experience of co-op board games--which are the only ones we play at my house, these days. The interactions at the TRPG table don't have to be antagonistic for success and failure (winning and losing) to both be possibilities--at...