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Not exactly, no. Where this actually started was when I pointed out that some of the priorities of the Living World/Sandbox folks place a priority on something other than player agency. For instance, if you willfully hide information from the players which then reduces their ability to make...

I've been explaining my opinions on the matter. I don't think that the living world sandbox type play being discussed is as player-focused as is being stated. That's not really a problem... as I've said, I run games like that myself. But I view them differently. My opinions and ideas on the...

I've clarified it a few times for you now, Max. I'll do it one more time. The GM makes decisions about the game that he's going to run. Not the game system he uses, though that's involved, but the campaign or one-shot or whatever it is he's going to run. The game. The things the GM creates...

There may be a difference, yes. But depending on the specific circumstances, there are also similarities. If I'm looking to get to a specific city for some reason, and the way is blocked by the frozen mountain pass, then I'm constrained. It's not an unreasonable constraint... but will it feel...

No, it's not misdirection. The "in world realism" can constrain "the narrative". A frozen mountain pass prevents travel to the location the PCs want to get to... okay, how do we determine when they can get there? When is the pass clear enough for travel? How long off is that? Who decides how...

Do you have anything to say about the actual points of my post?

Because when you’re talking about how the sausage is made it helps to talk about what’s actually happening. Having a problem with that as a basic description of some RPGs I would say they are likely constrained in some ways, no? Like they can’t get to Boston from Dallas without a long trip...

I’m not sure… it depends on the context in which it was said. I didn’t see where that was mentioned, so I’m not sure. I mean… I can see the idea of why someone might say that. I mean, the geography we’re dealing with is pretend. So you could probably design both a dungeon and a sandbox as like...

I have not framed sandbox style play as “ideologically suspect”. I’ve repeatedly pointed out that it’s a perfectly valid way to play, and one that I engage in myself. However I do think that a large part of what you’re talking about is GM led play. The focus of play is the setting more so than...

I'm describing my thoughts on the matter. Not too far upthread, you called them BS. But somehow, I'm supposed to soften my language. It's not about predicting what they'll do... it's about deciding what's relevant about the town. Even if it's nothing more than a place to rest and resupply for...

Let me ask you... do you think it's more about how you don't want to analyze and breakdown play in this way? Whereas I am comfortable doing so.

Did I say it was? @Paul Farquhar plays D&D and as far as I know it, that's it. He doesn't bring up other games, and every comment he makes seems to come from the viewpoint of someone that only plays D&D. Well, we're in a thread about challenging the conservatism of D&D fans. Despite my love...

I never said that a dungeon crawl and a sandbox are the same. No, I'm talking about the game that people play at the table. Not the game system. The actual game being played. GM's design and construct all manner of things to actually play the game. If they don't, then there is no game. You...

Yes, this is all accurate. I don't think that it generally delivers what is promised. I do think there is more freedom for the players than there would be in say an Adventure Path. But I don't think that it is the epitome of player agency that it is often cited as. I think it is still very GM...

:unsure:

So what? in Savage World, initiative is based on a card draw. In Mothership, it’s based on a speed roll. It’s that simple. No need to even mention other games or means of establishing initiative. We can just mention the way these two games do it, and then discuss what we consider the...

Yes you are. You make normative statements all the time about “how most games work” and “what most games include”. You present your very traditional ideas as the norm and anything else as some kind of exception to the norm. Rather than just two approaches to RPGs that are equally valid. To be...

Yes… I haven’t really been talking about system. I’ve been specifically talking about gameplay or the game. Whatever the system may be, when you design NPCs and locations and other elements, you have to consider the game. How you do so may vary depending on system, but that hasn’t been what...

And that’s not what you’re doing? Riiiight. Also… of the two of us, there is one who very clearly has a preferred playstyle. It ain’t me. If so, then you’re failing to account for context in your definition. As has been said, if sitting down to play one of the classic game modules is...

I think you’re missing what I’m saying. When you design an area… a town that’s meant to be part of a sandbox, let’s say… you are thinking about the fictional elements of the town. Like the leadership… is it a mayor or a council, or something else? What’s the major occupation or industry of the...