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I don’t know. I’ve accurately described both. There are those of us who don’t require that every game we play work a specific way. Like the cook! You know what I’ve never had to do when I see a patch of grass? I’ve never had to ask anyone else how tall it was. I could just see it for myself...

Well, I recall earlier in the thread where I described sandbox play as being GM focused. And that opinion was met with resistance. Not this “ah well we all have preferences and opinions and we should just accept that” attitude. Strange. Especially since my comments have at least been about a...

The “we” thing is causing confusion again. @AlViking repeatedly asked if the guard would have shown up in @pemerton ‘s game on a successful roll. When he wasn’t provided with an answer, he pointed it out several times. That’s what I was addressing, and the continued insistence that the guard...

You may or may not know the specifics. You know what’s desired… but the surrounding details aren’t specified until the roll occurs and then the GM establishes the fiction. So in @pemerton ‘s example, if the dice had come up a success, the guard still may have made an appearance… it just would...

But as we’ve seen with the cook and the burning house examples, any number of alternate possibilities can be offered. If the roll was successful, perhaps the guard shows up, having heard the song, and because of the quality of singing, offers help to the singer. @AlViking assumes a specific...

There is no way to know if a guard would have arrived onna success. He doesn’t know that. We don’t know what didn’t happen.

Do you not understand that asking @pemerton what would have happened on a success in his example is not a comparison of two games? It is a question about a specific game, and it is one that makes no sense… because as I stated, we can only guess what may have happened if the roll succeeded...

What? Says who? I don’t think there’s only one way to handle that in D&D. There’s certainly not only one way to handle it in RPGs. Again, this is not true for all D&D. Certainly there are methods and means used to create dynamic environments where NPCs will move about or can be found in...

I didn't say things go badly with a success. I said that it's possible the cook is still there. She may be in the kitchen, unaware that anyone has just broken in. She may be near the kitchen, in her quarters sleeping, unperturbed by the break in attempt. But that's the thing... only one...

How do you know that? First… you’re making the same mistake as @AlViking above. You’re assuming you know what would have happened on a successful check. You don’t. Second… it’s the same situation. A player did something and that prompted the GM to introduce an NPC to the situation. In one...

But all those things could be attributed to the punch in the eye. If the guy who hot the windshield is in recovery after plastic surgery and someone says “what happened” do you think he’s gonna leave out the fight that caused the accident? If he said “some idiot punched someone, and then...

Yes, I have done that just to drive home the idea of events being related and how we’d view them outside of a game. I’ve asked for people to answer specific questions outside of the context of RPGs. But I only speak for myself. There’s no reason for you to interact with other people that way. I...

How come you don’t apply the same logic to the failed lockpick check? Why does the player’s suggestion simply prompt you to consider if there would be a farrier, and then you decide yes there would be, and then he was there all along? Why would the failed roll not simply prompt you to consider...

"Very probably"? hahahah come on man. Also, force and cause are not synonyms. You're shifting the argument hear. I didn't say you forced those things to happen... I said that you punching someone in the eye was a reason they happened. There's a difference, and you're trying to shift the...

I didn't say it is a good idea. Under what circumstances would you as GM add something to the fiction? It's not in your prep or on the map... but it winds up in the game. How? What criteria do you consider? What caused the bystander to try and tackle you? Yes, it was his decision... but why...

This isn't a gotcha. It's a question. One you repeatedly don't answer to instead answer something else I didn't ask. Under what circumstances would you add something like a guard to the fiction? Please note, I am very aware that you would NOT do so on a failed roll. You have answered that...

Adding a cook to a kitchen seems similar to you as adding a dragon or Luke Skywalker? Okay, I guess. I'm trying to look at it not in game terms, but rather as a person with a reasonable understanding of cause and effect. I'm trying to see how people will classify cause and effect. And how...

Right. Under what circumstances do you add something like a guard? Yes, see above. I asked a question that you failed to answer.

Yes... but again, you missed my point. The GM can add anything at any time, right? Or must they have everything pre-determined in map and key format? Is the GM allowed to introduce new elements as needed? Can the GM just add a cook to a situation? No, cause and effect can be direct. It can...

The point is that if the door doesn’t get opened, there’s no saving the people inside. Again, it was a simple example meant to show how cause and effect work. What’s interesting to me is that the consequence being “connected” to the die roll seems to be the issue here… yet I would expect that...