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Yes, well it was a quick example that I thought folks could separate from gameplay and would then easily demonstrate the connections between actions and consequences. Foolish me! Turns out actions aren’t connected to other things and they happen in isolation!

That's what I disagree with. I think anyone looking at these descriptions that's not doing so through the lens of task-resolution traditional RPG mechanics will see cause and effect all over the place. The focus on task resolution is making you guys separate the task from the rest of the...

I asked the same question because many people have avoided giving a straight answer, or, as in your case, somehow misinterpreted the example. You thought that I was talking about the cause of the fire but that was not the case... so I clarified. My point is that there are consequences beyond...

No it doesn't. It also means no one inside is able to get out through the door. I feel like I've taken crazy pills! Yes, and I'm sure when you get home that night and your wife says "Anything interesting happen today, honey?" all you'd reply was "Well, I tried to open a door but couldn't."

I don't think there's one answer for your question here. I am only passingly familiar with Starforged, having read Ironsworn. I've not yet played or run either game. But I expect that the best way to break it up is to look at the fictional situation and think about what the goal is... what is...

The example with the burning house was in no way about the cause of the fire. Again... let's set aside the game for now and just think about the situation. There's a burning building. You try to open the door to let people out. You fail to do so. People are then burned in the fire. Do you see a...

I think this can be something that does happen with D&D and more traditionally designed games. Everything is focused on the task, and it's almost always a case of binary succeed/fail... so that can condition people to atomize each action into the task that's being attempted and look at that in...

I never claimed it started the fire. I don't even know how you would have drawn that conclusion. It's amazing to me how you guys are equivocating to avoid admitting that actions have consequences.

You just can't answer the question directly, huh? Forget gameplay for a moment. If in real life, if someone was trying to open the door of a burning house, and they failed to do so, and people inside were burned... would you describe these events as "unconnected"? It's a yes or no. What...

Not necessarily. Thethings can all be minor or all be major. The point is that they are sensible consequences of the situation. It depends on the game. If we’re talking about using fail forward in D&D, then yes, this is always an option if it’s the outcome that makes sense. Nothing that’s...

Forget the game for a moment. If you are trying to unlock the door of a burning building, and you fail to do so, and someone inside is then badly burned… you would describe these things as unconnected? That’s the question I’m asking. It’s not about rules or play priorities.

So if you failed to get into the burning house and then someone inside burned, you would consider that "unconnected" to your attempt to unlock the door? Really?

Yes, one would think so. Yet here we are!

Yes, that's possible. It is also possible for many other things to happen. It's all contextual. What if the house is on fire? Then is the failure to unlock the door the same as if the house was not on fire? Or would you say the consequences are then different?

Common sense in life. Forget play for a minute and think about how things work in the real world. If you forget to pick up milk at the store, no milk may not be the only consequence. Maybe your spouse will he annoyed with you. Maybe your kids will go without breakfast in the morning. Maybe one...

What I am talking about doesn’t really have anything to do with the game and is not me telling you anything about bad-wrong-fun. I’m simply talking about common sense. If you are trying to pick a lock, the consequences are more than “the lock does not open”. I mean… this is obvious. Why...

Because we’re talking about consequences. There are probably going to be at least a few, and potentially many, depending on so many different factors. Looking at any kind of ability or skill check divorced of the fictional situation seems like a poor method of analysis.

This is probably the silliest bit about this whole branch of the discussion. What it says to me is that people try to pick locks simply to pick them, and for no other purpose.

It seems fairly safe to assume that "we" means literally everyone RPGing since no one playing an RPG is in fact playing a real person in a real world.

A few thoughts on this. If there are new players discovering things for the first time, that doesn't mean that seasoned players will also be doing so. They discovered some of this stuff decades ago... that doesn't change because there are new players involved. Now, as I said, it may be that...