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But if they don't even match reality it's hard to have a discussion

Rubbish

That's why I said degenerate. 'Fighters should have high strength, weapon specialisation, and maybe throw darts' is optimisation but it's benign and it doesn't distort the game.

What? Why would he do that?

Degenerate optimisation is a system matters problem, specifically it's either a user error by the group/GM in selecting the wrong system for the experience they want, or it's a user error by the publisher in printing the wrong system for the experience they want. There are lots of RPGs that...

Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide. One of the blue book softcovers supplements for 2e. A really useful, approachably written guide to GMing. With great art!

I think White Wolf's achievement in getting close to D&D is much more impressive than Paizo's. White Wolf brought in a new audience to roleplaying and genuinely expanded the hobby. Their games had style, they were bold, they were different, they had something to say and had a real artistic...

I don't think anyone is saying it's authoritative. But we already have only very questionable evidence that Pathfinder ever outsold 4e. The fact that the people behind Pathfinder, and the people who have some level of inside knowledge, also haven't made that claim is further circumstantial...

Also wikipedia (which I'm a contributor to, and help run) tells me it's an appeal to authority, which is a logical phallusy

Yes. If Pathfinder had ever actually outsold D&D Paizo would have shouted it from the rooftops, right? What a marketing angle! To beat the leviathan! Maybe they were just shy

Yeah, agreed. I was at uni around 1995 and the feeling in our whole RPG society was that D&D was old news, stale, done. I had a home game that was still D&D but at uni it was all about Vampire, with some other stuff as a side note. I played Pendragon, Cthulhu, Vampire, Vampire live action...

But if I've used it with the seat closed there will be nothing to flush, is the point

D&D has always been the best-selling RPG. It will almost certainly stay that way. This has little to do with its game design. At best what we can say is that it has always been 'good enough' to not jeapordise its market position. 1. The rules of D&D has changed significantly between editions...

The lesson isn't 'D&D can be dethroned, look TSR went bankrupt'. The lesson is 'D&D is such a powerful brand that it took TSR nearly 30 years of terrible business decisions to go bankrupt'. (I know they didn't actually go bankrupt)

A New Hope

Not online but: At work, every toilet cubicle has a sign that says: 'Flush after use with seat closed'.

It's clear you really want to believe this, but it isn't true. I seem to remember that Amazon had a really good deal on the core 4e books on release, and that's where I think everyone in my group got their books. Later I bought Martial Power 1 as a pdf and some in my group were subscribers to...