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I'd really like DannyAlcatraz to define art without referring to art itself as part of the definition. I cannot make heads nor tails as to how he distiguishes art from non-art. Can architecture be art? It is both functional and aesthetic. Can commercial art be art? (They put "art" right in...

But if you use fool's gold, it's not gold, even if nobody detects the forgery. In other words, even if I accept your dog's spill as art, it may not be art. I may simply be mistaken or defrauded. If I paint a painting and sell it as a Rembrandt, and I fool all the experts and buyers and...

I understand your definition and position. I personally disagree that art can be made accidentally. A sunset is pretty -- it's not art. But I also understand the issues with trying to discern intent.

Thanks!

I didn't think I was being pedantic. I was just tryng to get at a definition that didn't use the word art or a synonym, so I could understand how he figured out if something is art. I apologize for the pedantry. Okay. You take issue with intentionality being an element. But does that mean if...

How curious. I wonder what brought this on.

That would still be circular, because what must the intent be to be creating "art"? What must the "artist" have in mind? If we can't define "art" how do me know that the putative artist has a definition of it himself? But, just as you asked, if I sit down to play D&D and, before we start i...

Your definition of art -- the result of actions intended to create art -- contains "art" within it. That is what makes it circular. It begs the question: what is art? At a D&D session, the players and DM are engaged in creative behavior. They are creating entertainment for one another. It...

The 17th century rabbinate of Amsterdam, and the early 20th century rabbinate of Odessa would disagree with you, as they excommunicated Spinoza and Trotsky, respectively, for teaching others that the heretical belief that the Jewish God doesn't exist.

The conscious effort you expend creating a fun game environment is also creating art. You are defining art circularly. If art is actions intended to create art, it is a meaningless definition. It cannot tell us what "art" is because it assumes a definition of art in its description. And...

I bet you have. Go back to my post and read the first two paragraphs. What I describe there is a conscious decision to create art. Artistic effort is conduct designed to elicit an emotional response in the audience observing the product. That product may be a performance, a statue, or a snow...

I think roleplaying game absolutely involve a conscious effort to create art. While the primary effort is to have fun, a secondary effort of any roleplaying is to entertain the other members at the table. You play a character to get a positive reaction from the other players and the DM. You...

Heaven, up; Hell, down, originates with the Sumerians. The sky was where the gods dwelled, probably because the smoke from the burnt offerings would proceed skyward. Hell was down because you buried your dead and that's where the dead spirits would go to. The lady of Hell was Ereshkigal, or...

Polytheists still persecuted one another for heresy. In the 2d century BCE, the Hindu king Pusyamitra Sunga, a Hindu, persecuted other Hindus who were also Buddhists for unorthodox beliefs. Nobody thought Buddhists had rejected Hinduism; they were not apostates. They only expressed the...

And if someone else refused to recognize the primacy of your local guy boss, you percesuted those people for heresy. Heresy was absolutely a concept outside monotheism. The Romans persecuted people on religious people if they wouldn't accept the cosmology they decided would be used to absorb...

innerdude, I have no problem with what you wrote. I think we are in accord on that analysis. My only caveat is that I think that every edition is unique in the factors that it possesses that may cause dissociation as you defined it. Any abstract mechanics may cause a player to feel the fourth...

I clearly wrote "isn't nearly as common". Of course there are dragons; they are just not so common as to affect the construction of castles. Then what point were you trying to make when you were engaging my discussion of the world-building problems inherent in 3e that are not inherent in 4e...

Me, and I withdrew that sugestion as soon as it was pointed out to me that it might be confused with a psychological condition. In other words, when confronted with compelling evidence, I changed by opinion. I did not engage in puerile insults and complain that the other person was speaking in...

But I wouldn't have invoked the anthropic principle there. I would invoke it in the following statement: Art Critic 1: Picasso is a hack because his paintings are abstract. Art Critic 2: But you like Monet and his paintings also employ abstraction. Art Critic 1: That doesn't count because...

It's not "bias" as in you're prejudiced. It's simply that the observation you are making is skewed because of its indirect nature. It's not a personal attack in any way. It is a statement about the logic of the argument, not the attitude of the arguer. I am not arguing that you ropinion is...