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Someone saying the contrast you are drawing is the wrong one to draw is not the same as saying our games are the same. They are not. They are just different in ways that differ from the contrasts you are drawing.

I'll second this. Most of the ultra-hardcore grim dark uber alles 40K fans just don't pay attention to 40K media. That's not the world portrayed in the Space Marine or Rogue Trader video games that are pretty lore accurate. It's not the world portrayed by the novels either which features some...

This is correct. Basically: 1. Player says what their character does and what they are trying to achieve. 2. GM either says that task/intention combo is not credible (which requires the player to revise task and intent or provides the Ob (Difficulty number) at which point the player can revise...

This last month: Daggerheart (a copy for me and another as a birthday present) Into the Odd Remastered Achtung Cthulhu! Warhammer Old World Player's Guide

I would disagree. I think D&D style fantasy tropes are fairly darn specific and only appear not to be to people who are very inundated to them.

It's D&D inspired fantasy. I consider it a D&D-like. Not as close as like Pathfinder, but still in the same like category.

There's no consistent playstyle amongst official D&D versions, so for me it's about tropes. If we're talking party-based fantasy with groups of adventurers in a generic D&D-Esque fantasy world it's a D&D-like. But just like a Soulsborne or Metroidvania game some are closer to the source than others.

If a player has to first sort of explore the setting through their character and often will have to engage in unrelated matters to pursue their goals instead of GMs designing situation with regard to those goals, I would call it less player driven than something like Burning Wheel but more...

I think one of the strange things is that sometimes metacurrencies are just currencies. There is nothing meta about Willpower in World of Darkness or Strings in Monsterhearts. They're just abstractions of diegetic phenomenon.

So, in games were intent is meaningful, I expect two things. That the intention is the character's diegetic intent and not the player's hope for the scene and that intention is credible. If that is not the case, I will simply say it's not the case and ask the player to establish the equivalent...

I don't think it's all that important a distinction, but for me it's about who determines the premises we're exploring through play. Almost all situation is GM-created, so my prism is are they setting the premise for the situations they frame from either world building they have done or plot...

It is different, but when decided after the presence of the cook is up to the GM. The complication is up to the GM. It might take a lot of time, it might damage your lock picks, you might have jimmied the lock and caused some damage, you might have alerted someone. That's even if you decide to...

Convince the GM X will make for a better story isn't how any of this works. In games that utilize intent like Daggerheart, Burning Wheel and L5R 5e what matters is credibility. Given what's been established is that intention a credible one? In games like Monsterhearts it's all about...

What I'm speaking to is what sort of fiction different approaches are most well suited to. Task resolution is much more well suited to the sorts of fictional situation where player characters are outside actors, where the setting is not actively acting upon them in the here and now. Where...

What I was trying to say is that the play techniques and play loops we commonly associate with D&D and similar games do an excellent job of bringing the moment-to-moment experience of exploring foreign environments and situations where player characters are acting upon others - are the...

GMs having a mental model they develop and evaluate is only more like our moment-to-moment existence as long as we are dealing with environments that have a fairly definite status quo that player characters are exploring and interrupting. Particularly if they are foreign environments player...

The line of discussion came out of an example of @pemerton provided of his Burning Wheel game in a response to a point unrelated to fail forward (I believe it was in response to a poster who was conflating games like FATE with Narrativist games like Burning Wheel unbidden in a general...

From my perspective, it's not about what you care for or not (I do not care what you or anyone cares for or not). I am quite confident that you (and others who share similar tastes) would not enjoy playing games like Burning Wheel or Apocalypse World if you understood them better. Your...

Sure, and the way we establish that disposition in scene framed play is the GM decides because they believe that makes for compelling situation that speaks to the premise of the game and the player characters. That's the whole point - between a roll being made and the GM describing what happens...

@The Firebird Scene framing is another one of those terms that could use some work. The GM is not framing discrete scenes that then run on evaluative logic. The scenes are fluid and constantly being reframed whenever the situation changes due to actions players have their characters take. At...