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We have a simple disagreement here. I believe the gameable space includes the shared fiction (or shared imagined space as I prefer to use) we all know and are all bound to. Stuff that is written down, but not revealed and may yet be revised is not gameable because there is no real way to assess...

I think we all need to be constrained (players and GMs) to a certain extent. We are engaged in a shared activity and as such establishing a set of clear expectations with each other about what play will look like and that we can use to keep each other accountable and to make sure we're rowing in...

I think there's room for fruitful voids like in Dogs in the Vineyard where we live what is sin and what is the proper punishment for a sin up to individual dogs. But also room for defined honor and glory in Legend of Five Rings where the fruitful void is more what you are willing to give up for...

You don't say it's lesser but you imply it's less real. And for those like me who value that feeling of being there in the moment and the emotional immersion in character and situations that's frankly worse. I think there are other ways to analyze games, but the alternative analysis still needs...

I think the commitments we make to ourselves are an important and vital part of play. I just think the commitments that we make to each other are more important. I value constraints and accountability because I approach from the perspective that we should all be trying to help each other do it...

@Bedrockgames I won't speak for @pemerton but he posts about play in a very technical way. Including his own breakdowns of running Traveller, D&D 4e, Cortex and others. I don't think he's blind to the artistry of play, just that focuses on those nuances makes it much harder to analyze and...

So, I think there's a difference between a constraint and a commitment. I think you can commit to your prep, as like a self-discipline thing, but you are never really constrained by it because you are not accountable for it. At the end of the day the GM Judgements you make in a game like Blades...

There is a substantial amount of GM's Say in Blades. It's different in that it's constrained, targeted and transparent. That where judgement is applied we can see its impact. There is a substantial difference here compared to the black box we see in traditional RPG design. Both utilize a high...

Most of these games are not really adventuring and in some there is no group. In Apocalypse World you are all members of the same hard hold (community) but no guarantees you actually work together. It's like tabletop Deadwood. In Sorcerer your lives intersect from time to time, but you each of...

I don't think expectations need to come from rulebooks, but that shared and formalized expectations help to create a healthy creative dynamic that encourages to speak up when we're not getting what we desire from play. Granted, I only play with friends.

Because it's not just making up details on the spot. It's framing scenes that speak to the embedded premise / values of the characters. The expectations for what the GM is doing are clear and transparent.

You can look at it however you want, but to me the essential component of a king ruling by fiat is that he is not accountable. That his decrees cannot be challenged. They are usually made for solid, principled reasons. We just don't know, because it's not for us to know.

It's not fiat because the motivations behind it are arbitrary. It's fiat because there is no accountability for it. There is no binding agreement about it. There is no saying "This is not meeting the shared expectations we have set". That's the difference in the enumerated principles and agenda...

I'm not going to dig into the technical bit of Apocalypse World, but instead take a higher-level view. We're deciding to play a game designed narrativist because we want a particular arrangement of things: Now that particular piece of prep is only useful to us (assuming we want they above...

I think something like Blorb Principles does a much better job at getting to the gameplay concerns of mystery scenario in large part because it's emphatically about fairness and the integrity of the challenge rather than getting into that space of this or that is more real. Blorb Principles 3...

So you agree that it's not less authentic?

It isn't about the quality of the experience. It is about the authenticity of it. The integrity of it. The realness of it. That's what matters to me. The reason I do this thing is the experience of being there in the moment as the character I'm playing, feeling what they are feeling, and making...

I'm not saying that you personally are making a judgement. I am saying that the terminology itself only addresses itself, only imagines itself and leaves no room for other things to exist and be legitimate. That it cannot be used to compare and contrast because it leaves no room for anything...

@Bedrockgames The problem with discussing the play practices you are talking about in the way you talk about them to others who play that way is the same fundamental problem you get when discussing method acting with method actors. The language in use does not account for other ways of...

Clue(do) lacks a (shared) fiction in that players lack the ability to impact or influence it and there is no response to the actions players take. This is why despite being more jargony I think "shared imagined space" was actually better for communication than "the fiction". Both are meant to...