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I think it's clear that the players are treating their PCs like game pieces, and they're in the game for the challenge of defeating their enemies. And there's nothing wrong with that, since it sounds like everybody's pretty much on the same page. But you'd like this to tie into a continuing...

Majoru, have you tried DMing Neverwinter Nights? It's no virtual reality, but a lot of people use it as that "holy grail" you're looking for, where you can group up and play through a prewritten session or campaign. I've known many people who use the system to play in the way you've described.

Here's another way to look at it -- why does favored class exist at all? I think it's to discourage people from loading up on one level of front-loaded base classes. Then why apply the penalty retroactively, after the choice is already made? Failing that, it looks like it'd be easier to lose...

Yeah, it seems like there's about a half-dozen ways to fix this problem other than banning the class. It sounds like the 1 million d6 Hulking Hurler problem -- certain combinations of abilities provide unintended synergy that you don't want. I'd personally just fix the synergies.

I don't see that as something D&D 3.x wants to do, and I'll make the comparison to Magic: the Gathering. Both games have two sub-audiences: wide and deep, for want of better classification. The "wide" audience buys a PHB, or a starter deck, and can play. The "deep" audience invests time and...

I've gotten bored of this argument as well, I'm afraid. I see the division between rules-light and rules-heavy as simply being a symptom of the fact that preferences within the hobby differ along many axes. I think what everybody's saying is true for them, within their own location on those...

This assessment of reality discussion is interesting to me. I wonder if anyone is interested in discussing how it relates back to elements of the game that are not covered by the rules, such as, well, character interactions? The reason I'm curious about it is that I could see there being far...

Wow, eyebeams, those are really intresting points. I disagree as to where rules-light games came from, though; I'd more argue that it should also include people who preferred a different focus. I think these competencies also reflect interests. Lots of people play roleplaying games without an...

Apart from the lengthy debate about AD&D 1e (which might have some relevance to this thread that escapes me), what I've taken from the last few pages is this: Groups should use a rule system that supports their preferences and expectations. In addition, that system will often be shaped or...

Great, I'm understanding you. Your first consequence deals with the idea that some things in the environment should just exist, and I could see how wanting to simulate a living world would lead one to include things like that. My disconnect was that I couldn't see why on Earth someone would...

See, that makes me understand the argument. My priorities are different, so I don't agree with it, but I understand it. I'm happy. It seems this kind of play emphasizes consistency for two reasons: - Impartiality, because the game is about overcoming challenges, and to feel that the...

Separate issue: Disconnects between how the various people at the table imagine the shared imaginative environment come up. It's important that they're dealt with. I don't think anyone will argue with that. But in both cases, the way they're dealt with is communication. Whether it's by...

Okay, I'll jump in and try this again. There are two things here: 1) C&C: GM says "There's a pit". Player says "How big?" GM says "You could probably make it, but it's a ways... DC X." 2) D&D: GM draws a battlemap, with a pit on it. Player measures it, checks the rules, determines it's DC X...

So we've established that we can't define whether a system is rules-light or rules-heavy, and that we can't agree on how to measure the time used. Sounds like we've answered the original poster's question. :)

Because some people might have missed it the first time. That's the resolution.

I feel compelled to point out Cat: The Roleplaying Game (http://wicked-dead.com/cat/). Not that it has rules for carrying capacity. I do agree that any ruling on cats is entirely dependent on what they feel like doing. If one was a familiar, and could communicate with you, I'd be worried -- I...

ThirdWizard and others, Hey, feedback! Thanks kindly. The setting is something I devised from the setting creation rules in Sorcerer, by Ron Edwards. It's the modern day, in a small college town. The PCs are otherwise ordinary people (a professor, a bartender, and a bouncer who dreams of being...

Okay, maybe you guys can help me out here. I'll describe the mode of play in the rules-light session we played tonight, using a slight variant to Primetime Adventures. Hopefully I can get some feedback on this. (I fully expect "That's not a RPG" as one possible response, so I won't be offended.)...

That's actually one of the things I think should change, and I don't play that way -- but that's totally off topic. :) Then I'll say "Then I'm not a good GM", because I run games the players love with light systems, and eh, am mediocre with the more complex ones. And with that, I've proved...

From what I've read on these boards and elsewhere, that's how a lot of people play. I think some players would be pretty surprised if they saw how little was actually "behind the curtain". :)