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"Cluedo" is the original name of the game, and the name most of the world knows it by. It was for some reason shortened to "Clue" for Americans.

Yes.

You (and others) read into this something that has not been said. It is not about "feeling real," that can be achieved in many ways and what works is ultimately subjective. It is merely about there being real deduction in a sense that there are pre-established facts to deduce. Whether that feels...

They are that.

Same, thus I haven't been active in the thread for a while. Objective pre-existing facts you can deduce -> real mystery. Not real in the sense that it is physically real, real in these sense that there are objective facts to be deduced. This is not hard concept to grasp, everyone actually gets...

At least I have tried to be clear for the whole thread that neither style is "better" or "worse." They're just different. By talking about "real mystery solving" I do not mean to imply it is superior, let alone more virtuous, it is merely a way to denote style of play where there are "real" or...

Well, if J.J. Abrams was in the helm they might...

Right, but at least to me it is pretty unclear where the line is. If we treat these factions as real and have them behave sensibly, then certainly things like the party to whom we are trying to set ambush for learns about it an thus do not walk into it can happen? Also, enemies kidnapping our...

I believe the carbon footprint disagrees with you which of them is the crime against nature.

Then why not say that? Why not say that the tension exists because the GM tries to use too mch and too hard myth? Because that sounds perfecty sensible to me.

Yeah, And this is vague as hell as myth goes. It is almost no myth, barely any myth, some myth-flavourd stands loosely scattered on a bottom of an empty myth box. It is not me "wanting" to do anything, it is that I understood this is the sort of prep @EzekielRaiden talked about. They have very...

No game to my knowledge, and that's why I balked at @pemerton's claim that would result a game working like this.

But what about history? What if the bad thing happened before the game even started, but the PCs don't know about it yet? Like certainly the world can have some sort of past?

I'm sure they can. But their action declaration was "I go to Krumptown to meet Sludge" and that did not come to pass. It seems to me you're in the no myth camp. Which is fine, as too I think that is the best fit for a game like this. Except that in your response to @EzekielRaiden which...

Right. But basically the thing is that if revelation that a bad stuff has happened is a hard move, and you are supposed to not use hard moves unless the situation warrants it, then you really cannot prep anything particularly concrete about this harsh apocalyptic world. Because if you prep "this...

Right. This is what I imagined. But @pemerton seems to think you are not allowed to do this.

And your claim is that regardless of whatever the player says, it is not possible fo GM to have established in prep anything that could contradict it? Because then then what the GM can prep is insanely limited. It is not a move. It just is. It is part of the history of the Pyrocult that they...

That's indeed what it sounds like. The allowed prep seems to be barely existent by my standards.* Which is exactly the stance @EzekielRaiden talked about earlier which started this whole tangent. * Which I don't find surprising, it has always made sense for me that narrativist games work...

Yeah, that makes sense. But then "prep negated an action declaration," a thing Pemerton insists cannot happen. Also, certainly it should be possible the burning have been happened before the game even started, as factions and NPCs obviously have history before that. And then the PCs just...

I don't get what you don't get. If you mean that the prep will not contradict moves, then that seems plausible enough (at least for most of the time,) but that's not what you said, you said the prep doesn't contradict action declarations, and that I have an issue with. I have the revised and...